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The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

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Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#401
post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think if they wanted to name the company they would have done so in the comment

I, for one, am glad it was mentioned. There's nothing secret about it and it saves me some trouble. Thanks for taking one for the team, Guy who figured it out

Same here. With all the detail provided it’s not hard to figure out the company.

Btw. You can vouch for comments that are marked dead to revive them.

Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But your claim is that twitter is no longer the center and many niches have migrated to Mastodon. I highly doubt this, unless you can point out an actual niche where Mastodon has more active discussions than twitter.

My claim is not "many niches migrated to Mastodon", but "Twitter is not at the center of tech discussion". At least, not for the hacker types. Even here, the majority of HN links that show up as a Twitter thread are about technology "businesses", not tech itself.

I don’t know how you can say that. The whole fiasco with open AI recently was a good example of how Twitter was the place where you could really stay up-to-date with everything going on. All the main players were posting there.

I love HN, but just because there wasn’t a lot of links to Twitter doesn’t mean it’s not the center of tech discussion

Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#403

I'm so conflicted reading this story. On one hand, yes, there were choices made during the design of the system that directly contributed to this tragedy. And a lot of innocent lives were lost, so saying that's "shit happens, it's an edge case" rings very hollow. On the other hand, this was a very peculiar set of circumstances, very much an edge case. Is it reasonable to expect designers of combat systems to triple c…

There was no war.

Well, apart from the fact that the Iran-Iraq war had been on right there for eight years, there's all this on the referred Wikipedia page, including the fact that the Vincennes was actually in Iranian territorial waters at the time:

> The Flight 655 incident occurred a year after the USS Stark incident, during which the Iraqi Air Force attacked the U.S. Navy guided missile frigate USS Stark on 17 May 1987, killing 37 American sailors.

> U.S. naval forces had also exchanged gunfire with Iranian gunboats in late 1987, and the guided missile frigate USS Samuel B. Roberts had struck an Iranian sea mine in April 1988.

> Two months before the incident, the U.S. had engaged in Operation Praying Mantis, resulting in the sinkings of the Iranian frigate Sahand, the Iranian fast attack craft Joshan, and three Iranian speedboats.

> Also, the Iranian frigate Sabalan was crippled, two Iranian platforms were destroyed, and an Iranian fighter was damaged. A total of at least 56 Iranian crew were killed, while the U.S. suffered the loss of only one helicopter, which crashed apparently by accident, killing its two pilots.

> On the morning of 3 July 1988, USS Vincennes was passing through the Strait of Hormuz returning from an escort duty. A helicopter deployed from the cruiser reportedly received small arms fire from Iranian patrol vessels as it observed from high altitude. Vincennes moved to engage the Iranian vessels, in the course of which they all violated Omani waters and left after being challenged and ordered to leave by a Royal Navy of Oman warship.

> Vincennes then pursued the Iranian gunboats, entering Iranian territorial waters.

So yeah, you are right, there was no actual war. But everyone was pretty war-ish

Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any good reading on this? Might be some interesting learning opportunities for (cyber)security monitoring, which is a total mess right now. Stakes are a bit less severe, but still.

I suggest you check out the work of Gary Klein and the Naturalistic Decision Making community, as the Vicennes work was one of the founding projects. He features it in his 1997 book _Sources of Power_.

Convenience links:

https://www.amazon.com/Sources-Power-People-Make-Decisions/d...

https://www.hpb.com/search?q=sources+of+power+klein&search-b...

Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#405
post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Especially with an element of "I might personally get blown up" involved.

Yet the Cuban missile crisis with the stake of the entire world didn't escalate.

We got _incredibly_ lucky. A Soviet submarine trying to get through the blockade believed that war had broken out and wanted to attack the US fleet with nuclear torpedoes [0]. Normally only two men aboard the sub had to approve the nuclear launch, and they both wanted to fire. This particular sub happened to have a third officer [1] on board who also needed to approve the launch, and he may have literally saved the world by disagreeing with the other two officers.

0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Missile_Crisis#Averted_n...

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasily_Arkhipov

Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

War is rarely about morals. But if they did drop them, we would be talking about casualties 20-30 times higher. This isn't about morals, since that would demand that every death is one too many. Killing just as many Palestinians as Jews were killed would be a fundamentally unmoral justification as well. I think there is different expectation towards Israel, every country would have reacted to an attack like it happen…

That's funny because to me, there's so much more leniency towards Israel. Blockading an entire city for almost two decades, and controlling almost every external aspect of its life while also openly and proudly colonizing the west bank with 0 repercussions is something only Israel can get away with. Bombing a city into rubbles with 0 official international condemnation from the west is also a thing only Israel can do…

> Bombing a city into rubbles with 0 official international condemnation from the west is also a thing only Israel can do.

There's plenty to criticize Israel for, but this isn't one of them. If Tijuana started sending terrorists over the border to San Diego, Mexico elected members of a known terrorist organization to public office and started a campaign to kick the US out of California "from the colorado to the sea?" and staged an attack on civilians the US would suddenly have a couple more territories and LockMart Grumman Atomics stock would skyrocket. The same applies for any other neighbor.

Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#407

A quite recent UX disaster at Paypal. The Paypal iOS app used to behave strange with numbers. The interface was designed that you had to type in the amount you wanted to send in cents. If you wanted to send USD 50, you had to type 5000. Paypal then would add a comma after the second digit from the right. What made it even stranger: The numbers were aligned right, so it had the feeling of typing backwards. I never rea…

Using a "comma" to refer to the decimal separator when talking about USD while writing in English about software (written in a computer language that uses a decimal point) took me on a mental rollercoaster. So much so that it led me to read the Wikipedia page on the decimal separator. My favorite part: > Unicode defines a decimal separator key symbol (⎖ in hex U+2396, decimal 9110) which looks similar to the apostrop…

>> Unicode defines a decimal separator key symbol (⎖ in hex U+2396, decimal 9110) which looks similar to the apostrophe. This symbol is from ISO/IEC 9995 and is intended for use on a keyboard to indicate a key that performs decimal separation.

Egad, settling the ./, issue by selecting ⎖ is like settling the debate between 0-based arrays and 1-based by numbering them from ½. Or between little- and big-endian by choosing middle-endian.

Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any good reading on this? Might be some interesting learning opportunities for (cyber)security monitoring, which is a total mess right now. Stakes are a bit less severe, but still.

I suggest you check out the work of Gary Klein and the Naturalistic Decision Making community, as the Vicennes work was one of the founding projects. He features it in his 1997 book _Sources of Power_.

Apologies for hijacking the conversation. Would you be able to recommend any reading specifically on complex UI for critical operations?

Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#409

Aside: it is the second day in a row that a thread from Mastodon ends up on the frontpage of HN. When was the last time I Twitter thread did the same, and does anyone else doubts that Twitter is no longer at the center of tech-related conversation?

I'm just glad to see the entire thread of conversation without having to switch to nitter or whatever.

Are you familiar with the libredirect plugin? It can automatically rewrite all twitter links to point at nitter instead.

Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suggest you check out the work of Gary Klein and the Naturalistic Decision Making community, as the Vicennes work was one of the founding projects. He features it in his 1997 book _Sources of Power_.

Apologies for hijacking the conversation. Would you be able to recommend any reading specifically on complex UI for critical operations?

It's probably not what you are looking for but the DoD Design Criteria for Human Engineering are pretty good.
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