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MeshGPT: Generating triangle meshes with decoder-only transformers

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Re: MeshGPT: Generating triangle meshes with decoder-only transformers

#151

Post by kranke155 »

orbital-decay wrote: post #144
kranke155 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With respect, I disagree with almost everything you said. The idea that somehow “AI isn’t art directable” is one I keep hearing, but I remain unconvinced this is somehow an unsolvable problem. The idea that AIgen is unusable at the moment for professional work doesn’t hold up to my experience since I now regularly use Photoshop’s gen feature.

Photoshop combined with Firefly is exactly the rare kind of good tooling I'm talking about. In/outpainting was found to be working for creatives in practice, and got added to Photoshop. >The idea that somehow “AI isn’t art directable” is one I keep hearing, but I remain unconvinced this is somehow an unsolvable problem. That's not my point. AI can be perfectly directable and usable, just not in the specific form DE3/…

Ah ok yes I agree. How many years is really the million dollar question. I’ve begun to act as if it’s around 5 years and sometimes I think I’m being too conservative.

Re: MeshGPT: Generating triangle meshes with decoder-only transformers

#152

Post by kranke155 »

ChatGTP wrote: post #143
kranke155 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With respect, I disagree with almost everything you said. The idea that somehow “AI isn’t art directable” is one I keep hearing, but I remain unconvinced this is somehow an unsolvable problem. The idea that AIgen is unusable at the moment for professional work doesn’t hold up to my experience since I now regularly use Photoshop’s gen feature.

You can remain unconvinced but it's somewhat true. I can keep writing prompts for DE3 or similar until it gives me something like what I want, but the problem is, there are often subtle but important mistakes in many images that are generated. I think it's really good at portraits of people, but for anything requiring complex lighting, representation of real world situations or events, I don't think it's ready yet, u…

It’s absolutely not ready yet for sure.

Midjourney already has tools that allow you to select parts of the image to regenerate with new prompts, Photoshop-style. The tools are being built, even if a bit slowly, to make these things useful.

I could totally see creating Matte paintings through Midjourney for indie filmmaking soon, and for tiny budget films using a video generative tool to make let’s say zombies in the distance seems within reach now or very soon. Slowly for some kind of VFX I think AI will start being able to replace the human element.

Re: MeshGPT: Generating triangle meshes with decoder-only transformers

#153

Post by chefandy »

hutzlibu wrote: post #149
stuckinhell wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blender is an another good example

Blender was a professional tool from the start. The company behind it went insolvent ... and with crowdfunding the source could be freed.

Right-- being open source doesn't automatically mean it's an amateur tool or has its roots in a collective hobbyist effort.

Re: MeshGPT: Generating triangle meshes with decoder-only transformers

#154

Post by CaptainFever »

mattigames wrote: post #91
CaptainFever wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, and if there was going to be such a tool, people who invest more time in it would be better than those casually using it. In other words, professionals.

Not really, "I" can make 2D pictures that look like masterpieces using stable diffusion and didn't invest more than 6 hours playing with it, the learning curve is not that high, and people already have a hard time telling apart AI art than those from real 2D masters who have a lifetime learning it, the same thing will happen with making videogames and 3D art.(Yeah nothing of this looks exiting to me, actually it look…

I didn't mean comparing it to human-created art, I meant comparing it to other AI generated or assisted artworks. Currently the hard parts of that would probably be consistency, fidelity (e.g. multiple characters) and control, which definitely stands out when compared against the casual raw gens.

Re: MeshGPT: Generating triangle meshes with decoder-only transformers

#155

Post by CaptainFever »

stuckinhell wrote: post #54
angra_mainyu wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I couldn't disagree more. RPGMaker didn't kill RPGs, Unity/Godot/Unreal didn't kill games, Minecraft didn't kill games, and Renpy didn't kill VNs. Far more people prefer playing games than making them. We'll probably see a new boom of indie games instead. Don't forget, a large part of what makes the gaming experience unique is the narrative elements, gameplay, and aesthetics - none of which are easily replaceable. Th…

Sorry I guess I wasn't clear. None of those things made games automatically. The future is buying a game making game, and saying I want a zelda clone but funnier. The ai game framework handles the full game creation pipeline.

The issue with that is that it probably produces generic-looking games, since the AI can't read your mind. See ChatGPT or SD for example, if you just say "write me a story about Zelda but funnier" it will do it, but it's the blandest possible story. To truly make it good requires a lot of human intention and direction (i.e. soul), typically drawn from our own human experiences and emotions.

Re: MeshGPT: Generating triangle meshes with decoder-only transformers

#156

Post by chongli »

stuckinhell wrote: post #145
crq-yml wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The likes of itch.io, Roblox, and the App Store already exist, each with more games than anyone can reasonably curate. The games market has been in the same place as the rest of the arts for some time now: if you want to be noticed, you have to mount a bit of a production around it, add layers of design effort, and find a marketing funnel for that particular audience. The days of just making a Pong clone passed in th…

Maybe if you were talking about the generative AI from 1 year ago. The incredibly fast evolution is makes most of your points irrelevant. For example ai art doesn't need prompt engineers as jobs anymore because it alot of prompt engineering is already being absorbed by other ai's. The chaining of various AI's and the feedback loops between are accelerating far beyond what people think it is. Just yesterday major brea…

I have yet to see any evidence that would convince me that generative AIs can produce compelling gameplay. Furthermore, even the image generation stuff has a lot of issues, such as making all the people in an image into weird amalgamations of each other.

Re: MeshGPT: Generating triangle meshes with decoder-only transformers

#157

Post by beebeepka »

wolfgang805 wrote: post #138
beebeepka wrote: post #76

Games and pretty much any other experience being generated by AI is obvious to anyone paying attention at this point. But how would it work. Are current ai generated images and videos using rasterisation? Will they use rasterisation, path tracing or any other traditional rendering technique, or is will it be an entirely different thing.

Why would a video or an image, something generated without a mesh, be using rasterization?

If it's faster to generate? I don't know, that's what I am asking

Re: MeshGPT: Generating triangle meshes with decoder-only transformers

#158

Post by godelski »

shaileshm wrote: post #4

This is what a truly revolutionary idea looks like. There are so many details in the paper. Also, we know that transformers can scale. Pretty sure this idea will be used by a lot of companies to train the general 3D asset creation pipeline. This is just too great. "We first learn a vocabulary of latent quantized embeddings, using graph convolutions, which inform these embeddings of the local mesh geometry and topolog…

> Also, we know that transformers can scale

Do we have strong evidence that other models don't scale or have we just put more time into transformers?

Convolutional resnets look to scale on vision and language: (cv) https://arxiv.org/abs/2301.00808, (cv) https://arxiv.org/abs/2110.00476, (nlp) https://github.com/HazyResearch/safari

MLPs also seem to scale: (cv) https://arxiv.org/abs/2105.01601, (cv) https://arxiv.org/abs/2105.03404

I mean I don't see a strong reason to turn away from attention as well but I also don't think anyone's thrown a billion parameter MLP or Conv model at a problem. We've put a lot of work into attention, transformers, and scaling these. Thousands of papers each year! Definitely don't see that for other architectures. The ResNet Strikes back paper is a great paper for one reason being that it should remind us all to not get lost in the hype and that our advancements are coupled. We learned a lot of training techniques since the original ResNet days and pushing those to ResNets also makes them a lot better and really closes the gaps. At least in vision (where I research). It is easy to railroad in research where we have publish or perish and hype driven reviewing.

Re: MeshGPT: Generating triangle meshes with decoder-only transformers

#159

Post by stuckinhell »

chongli wrote: post #156
stuckinhell wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe if you were talking about the generative AI from 1 year ago. The incredibly fast evolution is makes most of your points irrelevant. For example ai art doesn't need prompt engineers as jobs anymore because it alot of prompt engineering is already being absorbed by other ai's. The chaining of various AI's and the feedback loops between are accelerating far beyond what people think it is. Just yesterday major brea…

I have yet to see any evidence that would convince me that generative AIs can produce compelling gameplay. Furthermore, even the image generation stuff has a lot of issues, such as making all the people in an image into weird amalgamations of each other.

https://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/gamegan-research-pacman-annive...

pacman was recreated just AI

Re: MeshGPT: Generating triangle meshes with decoder-only transformers

#160

Post by stuckinhell »

CaptainFever wrote: post #155
stuckinhell wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry I guess I wasn't clear. None of those things made games automatically. The future is buying a game making game, and saying I want a zelda clone but funnier. The ai game framework handles the full game creation pipeline.

The issue with that is that it probably produces generic-looking games, since the AI can't read your mind. See ChatGPT or SD for example, if you just say "write me a story about Zelda but funnier" it will do it, but it's the blandest possible story. To truly make it good requires a lot of human intention and direction (i.e. soul), typically drawn from our own human experiences and emotions.

Then I'll just update my prompt to Zelda but funnier like Curb Your Enthusiasm style humor.
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