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Ask HN: How is this legal that you must use Google Billing for Android apps?

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Re: Ask HN: How is this legal that you must use Google Billing for Android apps?

#31

Post by bearjaws »

coldtea wrote: post #4

> How is this legal that if I want to publish an Android app on Play Market and charge for subscriptions, I must use Google Play Billing and pay 30% to Google? This is insane It's bad for the developer, sure, but what exactly is "insane" or "illegal" about it? They have created a product marketplace, and they let you sell there, and you must abide by their rules. If you want to sell on Gumroad or similar services you…

> It's bad for the developer, sure, but what exactly is "insane" or "illegal" about it?

Anti-trust made it pretty clear you can't be the railroad company and the oil company that uses the railroad to harm competition.

Play store is the rail road, apps are the oil.

> The thing is, you don't "have" to sell in Play Market - even if it was the only marketplace for Android, it would still not be some basic necessity of life that you sell apps for Android. You could always find another trade, or sell PC software, or whatever. In other words, a marketplace for a mobile OS is not exactly a public utility.

1. The Play Stores's massive user base makes it a crucial marketplace for developers wanting to reach the widest Android audience, and opting out will limit market exposure and revenue significantly.

2. Mobile app development requires distinct skills, tools, and strategies compared to PC software, making transitioning between these fields challenging and resource-intensive.

3. While the Play Market isn't a basic life necessity, its dominance in the app economy raises significant concerns about market fairness and competition, as it acts as a gatekeeper to digital distribution. You're essentially arguing the same shit that we would hear in the 90s "you don't need a refrigerator", sure you don't but life sure sucks without it...

Re: Ask HN: How is this legal that you must use Google Billing for Android apps?

#32

Post by zamadatix »

coldtea wrote: post #4

> How is this legal that if I want to publish an Android app on Play Market and charge for subscriptions, I must use Google Play Billing and pay 30% to Google? This is insane It's bad for the developer, sure, but what exactly is "insane" or "illegal" about it? They have created a product marketplace, and they let you sell there, and you must abide by their rules. If you want to sell on Gumroad or similar services you…

It's not the presence of a marketplace with rules that's the root problem it's the bundling of said marketplace which forces its dominance. It has nothing to do with whether these things are public utilities either, not sure why it would as that seems like an odd criteria for a business practice to be either insane or illegal. "Everyone just start using an alternative on March 3rd" is an unrealistic way to break the cycle that everyone already has Play as their main store when they get a phone and all the apps are already in Play so neither users nor developers can easily leave play (though it is possible to do successfully if you're larger, see Fortnite).

I.e. it's not that people are choosing only 2 app stores because they've got the best policies they are stuck with whatever policies the 2 app stores give them until some separation between device and marketplace is made. Going between Ebay and Etsy is easy, everyone has to go to the URL bar and choose to type "Ebay" or "Etsy". If every browser shipped with the starting page of Ebay, browser integrations into Ebay, and popup warnings about using Etsy then I'd bet the same problem would exist there.

The situation on consoles is no better but that's not reasoning the situation everywhere else should be like consoles it's a reason console rules probably need to be updated these days too.

Re: Ask HN: How is this legal that you must use Google Billing for Android apps?

#33

Post by bearjaws »

wouldbecouldbe wrote: post #11

Under a million you can get it to 15% by applying to the small business program. In most cases they allow users also to purchase subscriptions outside their app store, but you can't link directly to those purchases from within the app.

Unless you made a back door deal like Spotify

https://www.theverge.com/2023/11/20/23969690/google-spotify-...

Re: Ask HN: How is this legal that you must use Google Billing for Android apps?

#34

Post by simonbarker87 »

beeboobaa wrote: post #16

Wait until you find out about apple. They are worse in every way.

Well their policies just ape Apple with about a three month delay so not worse really.

Also App Store review is waaaaaay quicker than Play Store review. I often get apps reviewed in 24 hours on Apple but Google can be literally weeks.

Re: Ask HN: How is this legal that you must use Google Billing for Android apps?

#35

Post by beeboobaa »

simonbarker87 wrote: post #34
beeboobaa wrote: post #16

Wait until you find out about apple. They are worse in every way.

Well their policies just ape Apple with about a three month delay so not worse really. Also App Store review is waaaaaay quicker than Play Store review. I often get apps reviewed in 24 hours on Apple but Google can be literally weeks.

Odd, Google is always 1-4 hours for me (seems automated) while Apple tends to take anywhere between 2-14 days. And the Apple "reviewers" tend to whine about points they OKd the past dozen times. Or even better, sometimes they whine about things we changed because another reviewer asked for it. Must have wasted weeks worth of developer time just to appease these reviewers and their differing opinions.

Re: Ask HN: How is this legal that you must use Google Billing for Android apps?

#36

Post by _ea1k »

stetrain wrote: post #12

I thought a big benefit of Android was that you don't have to distribute your apps through the one official App Store.

It is more like the inverse. The big benefit is that as a user, you are able to acquire apps not distributed through the official app store. This can be useful for things like F-Droid.

For an app seller that needs revenue, the Play Store is the only practical option. Otherwise, they'd have to convince the user to tap the screen a half dozen more times, and that is too big of an ask. It'd ultimately hurt revenue more than the 30% tax.

Re: Ask HN: How is this legal that you must use Google Billing for Android apps?

#38

Post by simonbarker87 »

beeboobaa wrote: post #35
simonbarker87 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well their policies just ape Apple with about a three month delay so not worse really. Also App Store review is waaaaaay quicker than Play Store review. I often get apps reviewed in 24 hours on Apple but Google can be literally weeks.

Odd, Google is always 1-4 hours for me (seems automated) while Apple tends to take anywhere between 2-14 days. And the Apple "reviewers" tend to whine about points they OKd the past dozen times. Or even better, sometimes they whine about things we changed because another reviewer asked for it. Must have wasted weeks worth of developer time just to appease these reviewers and their differing opinions.

Which highlights a frustrating experience for developers. Both App Stores are wildly inconsistent - I wouldn’t mind the 30% if the systems were good, well run and offered a consistent, predictable experience for small devs (I personally don’t care about the sweetheart deals big co’s get, that’s just how big business works)

Re: Ask HN: How is this legal that you must use Google Billing for Android apps?

#39

Post by throwaway62012 »

KronisLV wrote: post #18
throwaway62012 wrote: post #3

There are alternatives to Play market. Play doesn't work at all in China. There is Huawei, Samsung and Xiaomi store, and probably others. Users can also install F-Droid or any other alternative store app. I don't see why it should be illegal to have fees and terms of use on your platform. Don't like it? Don't use the platform. You're not entitled to others' work.

> Don't like it? Don't use the platform. Many users don't even know that's possible, because all they've ever known is Google Play and it comes pre-installed on the majority of the devices, without a clear way to get something else. Even their own store explicitly disallows other store apps: https://play.google.com/intl/ALL_uk/about/developer-distribu... > 4.5 You may not use Google Play to distribute or make availab…

> Many users don't even know that's possible

I was talking about the developer. Don't use the platform if you don't like its terms of use.

Sure, of course a platform forbids you from using it to promote its competition. What's weird about it?

Users often have the alternative stores pre-installed. Or you can use your marketing to promote your app through other channels.

> It feels like a monopoly due to the network effect, especially with how third party APKs will throw warnings on Android by default.

Well, there's a good reason for the warning.

Re: Ask HN: How is this legal that you must use Google Billing for Android apps?

#40

Post by ua741 »

Sometimes, I feel it's a little unfair to products that directly compete with one of their SaaS offerings.

Take Google or Apple Photos, for example. Due to this 30% cut, they always have an unfair advantage when it comes to pricing.

In the case of Apple Services, we don't know if, under the hood, they are using undocumented APIs or whitelisting internal apps to provide a better experience when it comes to background work. (Context: Apple claims that the iPhone performs backups and a bunch of other tasks during the night while the phone is charging. Personally, I haven't seen any app perform these long-running backups as smoothly as their in-house apps.)

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