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MeshGPT: Generating triangle meshes with decoder-only transformers

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Re: MeshGPT: Generating triangle meshes with decoder-only transformers

#141

Post by boppo1 »

esperent wrote: post #105
LarsDu88 wrote: post #47

As a machine learning engineer who dabbles with Blender and hobby gamedev, this is pretty impressive, but not quite to the point of being useful in any practical manner (as far as the limited furniture examples are concerned. A competent modeler can make these types of meshes in under 5 minutes, and you still need to seed the generation with polys. I imagine the next step will be to have the seed generation controlle…

> A competent modeler can make these types of meshes in under 5 minutes It's not about competent modellers, any more than SD is for expert artists. It's about giving tools to the non-experts. And also about freeing up those competent modellers to work on more interesting things than the 10,000 chair variants needed for future AAA games. They can work on making unique and interesting characters instead, or novel futur…

>freeing up those competent modellers to work on more interesting things than the 10,000 chair variants needed for future AAA games. They can work on making unique and interesting characters instead, or novel futuristic models that aren't in the training set and require real imagination combined with their expertise.

Or flipping burgers at McDonald's!

There are only so many games that the market can support, and in those, only so many unique characters[0] that are required. We're pretty much at saturation already.

[0]Not to mention that if AI can generate chairs, from what we have seen from Dall-E & SDXL, it can generatte characters too. Less great than human generated ones? Sure, but it's clear that big boys like Bethesda and Activision do not care.

Re: MeshGPT: Generating triangle meshes with decoder-only transformers

#142

Post by ChatGTP »

adventured wrote: post #108
worldsayshi wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see that LLM's have come that much further in 3D animation than programming in this regard: It can spit out bits and pieces that looks okay in isolation but a human need to solve the puzzle. And often solving the puzzle means rewriting/redoing most of the pieces. We're safe for now but we should learn how to leverage the new tech.

> We're safe for now Some are safe for several years (3-5), that's it. During that time it's going to wreck the bottom tiers of employees and progressively move up the ladder. GPT and the equivalent will be extraordinary at programming five years out. It will end up being a trivially easy task for AI in hindsight (15-20 years out), not a difficult task. Have you seen how far things like MidJourney, Dalle, Stable Diff…

GPT and the equivalent will be extraordinary at programming five years out.

Being exceptional at programming isn't hard. Being exceptional at listening to bullshit requirements for 5 hours a day is.

Re: MeshGPT: Generating triangle meshes with decoder-only transformers

#143

Post by ChatGTP »

kranke155 wrote: post #139
orbital-decay wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both DE3 and MJ are essentially toys for single random pictures, unusable in a professional setting. DALL-E in particular has really bad issues with quality, and while it follows the prompt well it also rewrites it so it's barely controllable. Midjourney is RLHF'd to death. What you want for asset creation is not photorealism, but style and concept transfer, multimodal controllability (text alone is terrible at expre…

With respect, I disagree with almost everything you said. The idea that somehow “AI isn’t art directable” is one I keep hearing, but I remain unconvinced this is somehow an unsolvable problem. The idea that AIgen is unusable at the moment for professional work doesn’t hold up to my experience since I now regularly use Photoshop’s gen feature.

You can remain unconvinced but it's somewhat true.

I can keep writing prompts for DE3 or similar until it gives me something like what I want, but the problem is, there are often subtle but important mistakes in many images that are generated.

I think it's really good at portraits of people, but for anything requiring complex lighting, representation of real world situations or events, I don't think it's ready yet, unless we're ready to just write prompts, click buttons and just accept what we receive in return.

Re: MeshGPT: Generating triangle meshes with decoder-only transformers

#144

Post by orbital-decay »

kranke155 wrote: post #139
orbital-decay wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both DE3 and MJ are essentially toys for single random pictures, unusable in a professional setting. DALL-E in particular has really bad issues with quality, and while it follows the prompt well it also rewrites it so it's barely controllable. Midjourney is RLHF'd to death. What you want for asset creation is not photorealism, but style and concept transfer, multimodal controllability (text alone is terrible at expre…

With respect, I disagree with almost everything you said. The idea that somehow “AI isn’t art directable” is one I keep hearing, but I remain unconvinced this is somehow an unsolvable problem. The idea that AIgen is unusable at the moment for professional work doesn’t hold up to my experience since I now regularly use Photoshop’s gen feature.

Photoshop combined with Firefly is exactly the rare kind of good tooling I'm talking about. In/outpainting was found to be working for creatives in practice, and got added to Photoshop.

>The idea that somehow “AI isn’t art directable” is one I keep hearing, but I remain unconvinced this is somehow an unsolvable problem.

That's not my point. AI can be perfectly directable and usable, just not in the specific form DE3/MJ do it. Text prompts alone don't have enough semantic capacity to guide it for useful purposes, and the tools they have (img2img, basic in/outpainting) aren't enough for production.

In contrast, Stable Diffusion has a myriad of non-textual tools around it right now - style/concept/object transfer of all sorts, live painting, skeleton-based character posing, neural rendering, conceptual sliders that can be created at will, lighting control, video rotoscoping, etc. And plugins for existing digital painting and 3D software leveraging all this witchcraft.

All this is extremely experimental and janky right now. It will be figured out in the upcoming years, though. (if only community's brains weren't deep fried by porn...) This is exactly the sort of tooling the industry needs to get shit done.

Re: MeshGPT: Generating triangle meshes with decoder-only transformers

#145

Post by stuckinhell »

crq-yml wrote: post #100
stuckinhell wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm I think it will destroy the market in a couple ways. AI creating video games would drastically increase the volume of games available in the market. This surge in supply could make it harder for indie games to stand out, especially if AI-generated games are of high quality or novelty. It could also lead to even more indie saturation( the average indie makes less than 1000 dollars). As the market expectations shif…

The likes of itch.io, Roblox, and the App Store already exist, each with more games than anyone can reasonably curate. The games market has been in the same place as the rest of the arts for some time now: if you want to be noticed, you have to mount a bit of a production around it, add layers of design effort, and find a marketing funnel for that particular audience. The days of just making a Pong clone passed in th…

Maybe if you were talking about the generative AI from 1 year ago. The incredibly fast evolution is makes most of your points irrelevant. For example ai art doesn't need prompt engineers as jobs anymore because it alot of prompt engineering is already being absorbed by other ai's.

The chaining of various AI's and the feedback loops between are accelerating far beyond what people think it is.

Just yesterday major breakthroughs were released on stable diffusion video. It's the pace and categorical type of these breakthroughs that represent a paradigm shift, never seen before in the creative fields.

Re: MeshGPT: Generating triangle meshes with decoder-only transformers

#146

Post by stuckinhell »

ajuc wrote: post #71
chefandy wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think this general complaint about AI workflows is that useful Maybe not to you, but it's useful if you're in these fields professionally, though. The difference between a neat hobbyist toolkit and a professional toolkit has gigantic financial implications, even if the difference is minimal to "most people."

Linux vs Unix. Wikipedia vs Britannica. GCC vs Intel compiler. Good enough free hobby toy beats expansive professional tools given enough hobbysts.

Blender is an another good example

Re: MeshGPT: Generating triangle meshes with decoder-only transformers

#147

Post by stuckinhell »

johnnyanmac wrote: post #79
empath-nirvana wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A competent modeler can make these types of meshes in under 5 minutes. I don't think this general complaint about AI workflows is that useful. Most people are not a competent . Most people don't know a competent or can't afford to hire one. Even something that takes longer than a professional do at worse quality for many things is better than _nothing_ which is the realistic alternative for most people who would us…

>Most people don't know a competent or can't afford to hire one May be relevant in the long run, but it'll probably be 5+ years before this is commercially available. And it won't be cheap either, so out of the range of said people who can't hire a competent That's why a lot of this stuff is pitched to companies with competent people instead of offered as a general product to download.

The open source art ai community is far more mature than people think.

Re: MeshGPT: Generating triangle meshes with decoder-only transformers

#148

Post by stuckinhell »

WhitneyLand wrote: post #104
LarsDu88 wrote: post #47

As a machine learning engineer who dabbles with Blender and hobby gamedev, this is pretty impressive, but not quite to the point of being useful in any practical manner (as far as the limited furniture examples are concerned. A competent modeler can make these types of meshes in under 5 minutes, and you still need to seed the generation with polys. I imagine the next step will be to have the seed generation controlle…

As I understand it their claim is more about efficiency and quality. Being able to model something - is way different from being able to do it in the least amount of triangles and/or without losing details.

Until you create an AI to do those other parts too. (There is an AI being tested right now that tries to do that in the game dev community)

Re: MeshGPT: Generating triangle meshes with decoder-only transformers

#149

Post by hutzlibu »

stuckinhell wrote: post #146
ajuc wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linux vs Unix. Wikipedia vs Britannica. GCC vs Intel compiler. Good enough free hobby toy beats expansive professional tools given enough hobbysts.

Blender is an another good example

Blender was a professional tool from the start. The company behind it went insolvent ... and with crowdfunding the source could be freed.
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