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The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

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Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#211

Post by raxxorraxor »

toyg wrote: post #182
mlrtime wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not a "both sides" issue. Thought experiment for you. Q: What would happen today if Hamas and supporters permanently gave up all their weapons and surrendered? A: Israel would immediately stop any wartime action. Q: What would happen today if Israel gave up it's defenses and military, took down the borders? A: Iran and Hamas would kill every last Jew in Israel. They have to, it is their charter. Also, how man…

Those answers are preposterous and your argument is laughable. This is indeed a "both sides" issue, because otherwise it wouldn't have remained a hot conflict after 70 years. There are legitimate and now multi-generational grievances on both sides, that are really difficult to recompose. You can't engage with simplistic attitudes if you want to be intellectually honest.

You don't like the argument because you know it to be true. The exception is the settlements in the West Bank, but those began after extremism in Israel rose considerably. That is a severe problem, but if people excuse terrorism as resistance, the same would apply here.

Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#212

Post by JKCalhoun »

cryptos wrote: post #116

This could have been an article worth reading, instead it is chunked in tweets (or whatever they are named now) on X. I'd be interested in the topic, but hate the reading experience to much to read it.

But it's about bad UI.

Irony.

Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#213

Post by upofadown »

Admiral Cloudberg has a detailed discussion of the incident, including the user interface behaviour:

* https://admiralcloudberg.medium.com/the-long-shadow-of-war-t...

Reading the different takes on the incident leaves one with the impression that there was a lot more going on there than just the stuff with the user interface.

Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#214

Post by quietbritishjim »

itsoktocry wrote: post #148
kortilla wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a stupid comparison because the USSR intentionally shot down a plane without trying to contact it and then didn’t cooperate at all on search efforts. Additionally, the pilot positively identified it was a passenger jet due to the double decker windows but shot anyway because they were shooting down “spy planes”, not anything that was an actual threat. This is in contrast to the US incident where they tried to…

> That’s a stupid comparison because the USSR intentionally shot down a plane without trying to contact it and then didn’t cooperate at all on search efforts. I don't know much about either incident, but your summary sounds exactly what the OP is saying: "Here are the reasons the Russians did it. It's different, because they're evil". One side was lying about thinking it was a spy plane, but the other side legitimate…

> "Here are the reasons the Russians did it. It's different, because they're evil"

No. The OP was talking about generally thinking that the Russians are evil and the US is great. Whereas the comment you're replying to gave specific malicious things that happened in the Russian case and didn't in the US case. The difference between the way people acted in the two cases is clear and doesn't require any particular political persuation to understand.

Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#217

Post by isodev »

CogitoCogito wrote: post #141
Aissen wrote: post #37

Pro-tip to those unused to mastodon web-ui: you can click the eye on the top right of the center column (next to Back) to expand all posts at once.

Does anyone know the reasoning for not having the posts expanded by default?

Not sure but the good news is, that’s just one of many UIs to pick from in Mastodon and the fedivers in general. There are also countless apps with various takes on threads, so I’m sure one can find something they like.

Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#218

Post by macintux »

ImaCake wrote: post #108
m463 wrote: post #94

I wonder when a tesla will show up in a courtroom with a situation like this. I'm not talking about autopilot. I'm talking about the continuous (past ridiculous) removal of physical controls from their vehicles. For example, the original model S/X had dedicated controls for lots of functions - turn signals, gear shift, wipers, autopilot, steering wheel tilt, etc. On the steering wheel, there were two buttons and a sc…

Its not just Tesla. Recent Jeep models have a digital speedometer with no analog backup. From an engineering perspective these changes just introduce needless risk of complex failure for no real gain. Surely the speedometer is not the make or break cost item on a car?

Fortunately I bought my Jeep with a manual; as long as I know what gear I'm in, I know roughly how fast I'm driving by sound.

But I'd be surprised if Jeep is the only example of this (outside Tesla). Surely this is the way all cars have been going for a while.

Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#219

Post by oddmiral »

totetsu wrote: post #134
gambiting wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who mentioned anything about Christianity??

Some people equate morality with religion.

Religion shapes morale. Morale shapes religion. They are not equal, but they influence each other.

Moreover, human actions is heavily influenced by circumstances. With low birth rate, it's better to protect children. With high birth rate, it's OK to sacrifice some young man to free some space, like farmers do for their crops, thus we see different messages in different circumstances even in countries with same religion and morale.

Moreover, humans are good at placing arbitrary boundaries, for example Catholics are OK to kill other nations en masse because "they are not Catholics, so they have no soul, so they are not humans, they are like pigs". Some versions of Islam even encourages holy war against non-Muslims. Some other minor religions are even promoting cannibalism. Even atheists are promoting mass killings, for example communists want to kill all rich(-ier than them).

So, while Christianity promotes peace, latest 2 world wars and current greatest war since WWII, are between Christians. Guess who will use nuclear weapon for second time in the history? North Korea? Iran? China? USA? Britain? Russia? Ukraine?

Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#220

Post by klibertp »

brabel wrote: post #168
dataworm wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

russian soldiers are evil nazis, not normal people. Most of the russian population supports the invasion, destruction of Ukrainian cities and killing of Ukrainian children.

And where did you learn that? My wife is Ukrainian and knows lot of Russians and Belarussians (they're neighbours after all, and no they don't all hate each other!!), they watch each other TV shows and like mostly the same singers (they understand each other pretty well)... a lot of the biggest Ukrainian singers go to live and work in Russia (though obviously they're now being criticized heavily in Ukraine when they…

Don't bother. Seriously. You won't convince anyone irrational enough to generalize hundreds of thousands of people into "russian soldiers are evil nazis, not normal people" with rational arguments. The only way to convince such people (that peace is better than killing) is to subject them to long-term, consistent propaganda, but... The only forces capable of doing that are interested in pretty much exactly the opposite outcome.

War is bad. Killing people, whoever they are, is wrong - and all people are just regular humans. There are no monsters, no "evil nazis" in reality, outside of fiction and propaganda. However, understanding that takes effort, and runs counter to many of the incentives built into human psychology.

Like you, I believe there's "a lot more to the story." I feel so helpless, knowing that I have no choice but to sit and watch all the atrocities happening all around the world because almost nobody is interested in stopping them. People who happily support the killing (of the "other side" only, of course) are the biggest reason this keeps happening. Since they're impossible to convince, these things are bound to continue.

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