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BBC Basic returns on multiple platforms, open sourced

bbcbasic.co.uk

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Re: BBC Basic returns on multiple platforms, open sourced

#21

Post by zozbot234 »

quickthrower2 wrote: post #20
blowski wrote: post #3

If you're teaching 10 year old kids to code, is there an advantage to using something like this over Python or JavaScript?

The advantage is the "just works, stays the same, simple base" nature of it. Web dev in the browser with JS "just works" but slowly drifts, and the base isn't simple. Even learning vanilla JS is a lot harder than BBC Basic. There is a lot less to BBC Basic. For example if I remember there is zero functional programming capability, no closures, no objects even (I think there were strings, numbers, booleans, arrays of…

> For example if I remember there is zero functional programming capability, no closures, no objects even ... very simple types

This, pretty much. Of course it would be even simpler to start from a language where the only "type" is the machine word, like assembly or some varieties of FORTH. A language like BASIC adds only a slight amount of complexity, for a sizeable gain in ease of use and intuition.

Re: BBC Basic returns on multiple platforms, open sourced

#22

Post by brainwipe »

tomalpha wrote: post #4

The killer features of BBC Basic for me were: - instant-on - you turned on the power switch at the back of the BBC Micro, got the double beep, and in less than a second were dropped into a REPL / shell with the language - integrated assembler - you could inline assembly language really easily - great documentation - before the web, documentation meant books - of which there were many - but also crucially in the BBC M…

Additionally - the BBC would put "how to code" programmes on the TV. That's how my neighbour got started when I was knee high.

Re: BBC Basic returns on multiple platforms, open sourced

#23

Post by [deleted] »

brainwipe wrote: post #22
tomalpha wrote: post #4

The killer features of BBC Basic for me were: - instant-on - you turned on the power switch at the back of the BBC Micro, got the double beep, and in less than a second were dropped into a REPL / shell with the language - integrated assembler - you could inline assembly language really easily - great documentation - before the web, documentation meant books - of which there were many - but also crucially in the BBC M…

Additionally - the BBC would put "how to code" programmes on the TV. That's how my neighbour got started when I was knee high.

[deleted]

Re: BBC Basic returns on multiple platforms, open sourced

#24

Post by [deleted] »

zozbot234 wrote: post #14
andyjohnson0 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before getting my hands on a BBC Micro I'd done all my teenage programming on an Apple II - so the killer feature of BBC Basic for me was that it had a renumber command. No more having to re-type code because I'd used-up all the line numbers between line 110 and 120. A little thing but it felt like magic.

> No more having to re-type code because I'd used-up all the line numbers between line 110 and 120. Line numbers are arbitrary, you can just use GOTO to jump to some out-of-line code then GOTO back at the end. It gets a bit spaghetti'ish if you do it lot, though.

[deleted]

Re: BBC Basic returns on multiple platforms, open sourced

#26

Post by blowski »

Mr-Frog wrote: post #13
blowski wrote: post #3

If you're teaching 10 year old kids to code, is there an advantage to using something like this over Python or JavaScript?

Maybe. Having been a 10-year old when both of these languages were available, my main goals were to make things that looked cool to share with friends and family. My dad set me up with a BASIC256 environment around the time it was released, and I liked it because it gave immediate feedback and had a built-in graphics interface. JavaScript: Cool language, but I was not excited about all of my work happening in a web b…

Mine (starting in late 1980s) was GW-BASIC -> Visual Basic (esp with Access) -> Ruby -> PHP/WordPress -> JavaScript -> everything else. It worked then because it was hard to find education material, and the alternatives (C, Lisp) were so damned hard.

I think the trade-off is that Python has an immense ecosystem - libraries (e.g. PyGame Zero), education material, people. Plus you can point to real-world examples of people building stuff with Python - you can make actual money with it. I'd be worried that teaching BASIC puts them in a niche - one where they make progress more quickly, but struggle to get out of.

Re: BBC Basic returns on multiple platforms, open sourced

#27

Post by codeulike »

zozbot234 wrote: post #14
andyjohnson0 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before getting my hands on a BBC Micro I'd done all my teenage programming on an Apple II - so the killer feature of BBC Basic for me was that it had a renumber command. No more having to re-type code because I'd used-up all the line numbers between line 110 and 120. A little thing but it felt like magic.

> No more having to re-type code because I'd used-up all the line numbers between line 110 and 120. Line numbers are arbitrary, you can just use GOTO to jump to some out-of-line code then GOTO back at the end. It gets a bit spaghetti'ish if you do it lot, though.

Desperate times

Re: BBC Basic returns on multiple platforms, open sourced

#28

Post by Arch-TK »

It's good to see old software being released as open-source with no-strings-attached OSI approved open source licenses.

Although this trend also attracts certain for-profit entities who like to release their code as "open source" to join the bandwagon, except the license used is decidedly not open source.

Re: BBC Basic returns on multiple platforms, open sourced

#29

Post by icosian »

tomalpha wrote: post #4

The killer features of BBC Basic for me were: - instant-on - you turned on the power switch at the back of the BBC Micro, got the double beep, and in less than a second were dropped into a REPL / shell with the language - integrated assembler - you could inline assembly language really easily - great documentation - before the web, documentation meant books - of which there were many - but also crucially in the BBC M…

I donated my BBC Model B+ to a computer museum recently, along with a stack of Acorn User magazines (available on the Internet Archive, BTW) and software on cassette. Felt strong pangs of regret driving away. I can still feel the excitement of figuring it all out, a world opening up to me.

Those BBC TV shows had the unusual feature of broadcasting software over the end credits. Just had to tape the screeching and play it back into the computer.

Re: BBC Basic returns on multiple platforms, open sourced

#30

Post by xanderlewis »

blowski wrote: post #3

If you're teaching 10 year old kids to code, is there an advantage to using something like this over Python or JavaScript?

For 10 year olds maybe not, but I learnt to program with BBC Basic (running on Windows) at the age of about 5 or 6. I used to produce the biggest mess of GOTO statements you’ve ever seen, but it was so much fun!

I think even something like Python might’ve been too subtle for me at the time.

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