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The Cancers In The Ruby Community

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Re: The Cancers In The Ruby Community

#41

Post by clivestaples »

txus wrote: post #27
petercooper wrote: post #24

It's the latest attempt to define a singular "Ruby community" from a tiny subset someone has encountered and pin FUD on it, giving ignorant third parties a bad impression of Ruby in general. I frequently encounter people who say things like "Ruby is all drama", "I chose Python because Ruby is full of bickering hipsters" or "I've always found rails programmers rather arrogant." Lies (or gross generalizations at best)…

I didn't mean to give a bad impression of Ruby. I think (and many people have pointed out) that the problems I outline are valid for many developer communities, if not all of them. In the end, those communities are human, and share a good amount of our defects.

Did it really not occur to you that an overly-dramatic lament, with f-bombs and references to cancer, might give a bad impression? There is really very little excuse for Rubyists to have so little awareness, especially if they hope to overcome the stigma they are so worried about...

Re: The Cancers In The Ruby Community

#42

Post by nupark2 »

txus wrote: post #32
nupark2 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, he is a part of the Ruby community, and they do often seem to often favor emotional arguments conveyed through harsh language.

If you can't see the point because of the "harsh language" then I apologize, I might publish a politically correct version for you then :)

The harsh language doesn't convey the point at all. It's an appeal to emotion, and has no place in a rational argument.

Re: The Cancers In The Ruby Community

#43

Post by mechanical_fish »

txus wrote: post #31
mechanical_fish wrote: post #18

Some incidental writerly advice: Avoid using the word cancer metaphorically, unless you're deliberately trying to parody the writing style of, say, Adolf Hitler. Otherwise it's like trying to use a howitzer to dig postholes in your yard. I first began to notice the dangerous power of this word when I was working in cancer research. To a cancer researcher, cancer is a thing one deals with all day long, but at a very s…

I didn't need to grow old to watch relatives and friends fighting cancer. I know how serious it is, and I really admire that you're working in that particular field. That said, I used the metaphor on purpose, because of its power, because I think it's a perfectly valid analogy.

Oh, I don't work in cancer research anymore. You may cease to respect or admire me! ;)

Re: The Cancers In The Ruby Community

#44

Post by nupark2 »

petercooper wrote: post #25
nupark2 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, he is a part of the Ruby community, and they do often seem to often favor emotional arguments conveyed through harsh language.

What a crass, and inaccurate, generalization.

Now, I'm not equipped to perform a statistically valid sampling of all conference talks, but pervasive anecdotal evidence lends credence to this notion.

Specifically, this comes to mind:

http://lifehacker.com/5859392/swearing-to-make-your-point-a-...

As well as this:

http://www.zedshaw.com.sharedcopy.com/rants/51489cec9386f7c1...

And this:

http://david.heinemeierhansson.com/posts/15-potty-mouths

There are more, but I don't think I need to internet-sleuth the entire set of well-known Ruby / Web personalities to demonstrate the point: a base lack of professionalism abounds.

Re: The Cancers In The Ruby Community

#45

Post by mechanical_fish »

sk5t wrote: post #36
txus wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't need to grow old to watch relatives and friends fighting cancer. I know how serious it is, and I really admire that you're working in that particular field. That said, I used the metaphor on purpose, because of its power, because I think it's a perfectly valid analogy.

I still think you lack perspective -- maybe standing "back from the fire" a bit. I would never, ever use that word to express anything about a lousy programming topic.

Agreed, but more importantly: I would never use that word unless I was trying to start a fight. And trying to use the word to stop a fight is just backwards.

(Like all rules for writing, this one has exceptions: For example, if it's in the service of a great pun, like:

Syntactic sugar causes cancer of the semicolon

well, that's different.)

Re: The Cancers In The Ruby Community

#46

Post by nupark2 »

txus wrote: post #30
toast76 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having swearing as a personal signature is like having a tattoo. It doesn't make you any "cooler", and everyone does it so it's not much of a signature. It's not that it's offensive, it just says you are unable to convey the strength of your argument without the vulgarities. You lose critical (logical) thinkers when you resort to crass language; primarily because it says your argument relies on emotion, not logic.

Just like a tattoo, it shouldn't distract critical thinkers when judging the contents and the point of my argument.

In a discipline such as computer science, appeals to emotion are inherently untrustworthy and distracting. A reader shouldn't have to shift through pandering rhetoric to find the kernel of a supportable argument.

Re: The Cancers In The Ruby Community

#47

Post by nupark2 »

petercooper wrote: post #20
GussyGusGus wrote: post #2

All three of those things are merely symptoms of the real problem: a lack of professionalism.

Just some bits from DHH about this: https://twitter.com/#!/dhh/statuses/1631100714 http://david.heinemeierhansson.com/posts/42-we-need-both-eng...

"Professional to me is facade, fake sincerity, political correctness, not offending anyone, and everything else that makes life lifeless."

Which only goes to support the notion that much of Ruby's community has issues from the top down. We're speaking of computer science, in which objective, rational analysis leads to correct answers -- not appeals to emotion and an almost religious acceptance of poor solutions.

For every serious Ruby contributor and leader like Charles Nutter (JRuby), there are 5 DHHs or DDH adherents shouting down professionalism as if it was an anathema to logical expression.

Re: The Cancers In The Ruby Community

#48

Post by lbrite »

mechanical_fish wrote: post #18

Some incidental writerly advice: Avoid using the word cancer metaphorically, unless you're deliberately trying to parody the writing style of, say, Adolf Hitler. Otherwise it's like trying to use a howitzer to dig postholes in your yard. I first began to notice the dangerous power of this word when I was working in cancer research. To a cancer researcher, cancer is a thing one deals with all day long, but at a very s…

I appreciate your feelings based on your personal experience with this terrible disease. I do however feel this reply and subsequent replies on this topic completely unwarranted.

The word cancer has been adopted into the English language to mean an evil condition or thing that spreads destructively.

The article makes no reference to the medical condition, nor the star sign, nor the tropics of.

I don't care much for this article, but the author has used the word cancer in context without belittling the medical condition and it is unfair of you to imply that he has.

Especially since you compare his writing style to one of the most despot genocidal maniacs of our time.

Re: The Cancers In The Ruby Community

#49

Post by hjhjhj »

clivestaples wrote: post #10
hjhjhj wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

lol he said "professionalism". Feels like 1997.

Common courtesy, decorum and a prevailing sense of personal responsibility are lost in these frothy times of high demand and inflated economy (i.e. the fast train to DoucheVille). But one day this economy is going to correct in earnest and all these allusions of grandeur are going to give way to some harsh realities. Being too-cool-to-act-professional is going to make a lot of mustaches sad. Effective smart people ar…

Sorry, maybe I should elaborate. Professionalism is the act of work for pay. Exactly what you just denounced.

I've worked for many places where we joked about being "professionals" simply due to the fact that we were being paid.

The term "professionalism" is a dinosaur that has nothing at all to do with quality or attitude or really anything beyond someone paying you.

Re: The Cancers In The Ruby Community

#50

Post by edwinnathaniel »

petercooper wrote: post #25
nupark2 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, he is a part of the Ruby community, and they do often seem to often favor emotional arguments conveyed through harsh language.

What a crass, and inaccurate, generalization.

... Yet there are a few people who agreed and think the same way as he is...
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