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The Cancers In The Ruby Community

blog.txustice.me

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Re: The Cancers In The Ruby Community

#31

Post by txus »

mechanical_fish wrote: post #18

Some incidental writerly advice: Avoid using the word cancer metaphorically, unless you're deliberately trying to parody the writing style of, say, Adolf Hitler. Otherwise it's like trying to use a howitzer to dig postholes in your yard. I first began to notice the dangerous power of this word when I was working in cancer research. To a cancer researcher, cancer is a thing one deals with all day long, but at a very s…

I didn't need to grow old to watch relatives and friends fighting cancer. I know how serious it is, and I really admire that you're working in that particular field. That said, I used the metaphor on purpose, because of its power, because I think it's a perfectly valid analogy.

Re: The Cancers In The Ruby Community

#32

Post by txus »

nupark2 wrote: post #15
pluies_public wrote: post #9

Interesting article, though the point could have been carried across just as well without all this motherflippin' swearing.

Well, he is a part of the Ruby community, and they do often seem to often favor emotional arguments conveyed through harsh language.

If you can't see the point because of the "harsh language" then I apologize, I might publish a politically correct version for you then :)

Re: The Cancers In The Ruby Community

#33

Post by txus »

salimmadjd wrote: post #22

Maybe because rails is like a religion-based on faith. As an old-timer who started web programming on perl/cgi I've always found rails programmers rather arrogant and a bit off-putting. I say rails because this seems to be the main driver behind Ruby's growth. Rails seems to work magically for first-timers and without knowing what's happening it allows anyone to build sophisticated web applications. It basically expe…

I don't think that's Rails, or Ruby or whatever paritcular tech we're discussing. I think that's a common trait in human communities, and I'm worried about the one I feel mine, but I'm sure everyone can see a part of their community reflected on my post.

Re: The Cancers In The Ruby Community

#34

Post by DanBC »

txus wrote: post #32
nupark2 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, he is a part of the Ruby community, and they do often seem to often favor emotional arguments conveyed through harsh language.

If you can't see the point because of the "harsh language" then I apologize, I might publish a politically correct version for you then :)

There Are Lots Of Seemingly Trivial Ways To Make Your Text Harder To Read.

yOu mAy sAy tHat pEople wHo hAve tRouble rEading sUch tExt sHould jUst mAke mOre eFfort.

But.you.are.writing.the.blog.,.so.surely.you.want.to.be.as.widely.read.as.possible.?.

Postel's law (gently reformulated) is important when you have one-to-many communication. "be conservative in what you send, be liberal in what you accept".

Re: The Cancers In The Ruby Community

#35

Post by txus »

DanBC wrote: post #34
txus wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can't see the point because of the "harsh language" then I apologize, I might publish a politically correct version for you then :)

There Are Lots Of Seemingly Trivial Ways To Make Your Text Harder To Read. yOu mAy sAy tHat pEople wHo hAve tRouble rEading sUch tExt sHould jUst mAke mOre eFfort. But.you.are.writing.the.blog.,.so.surely.you.want.to.be.as.widely.read.as.possible.?. Postel's law (gently reformulated) is important when you have one-to-many communication. "be conservative in what you send, be liberal in what you accept".

Heh, I really liked the analogy with Postel's law, and I guess you're right. The main criticising I've received about the blog post has been about the swearing, so I guess I could skip that next time.

Re: The Cancers In The Ruby Community

#36

Post by sk5t »

txus wrote: post #31
mechanical_fish wrote: post #18

Some incidental writerly advice: Avoid using the word cancer metaphorically, unless you're deliberately trying to parody the writing style of, say, Adolf Hitler. Otherwise it's like trying to use a howitzer to dig postholes in your yard. I first began to notice the dangerous power of this word when I was working in cancer research. To a cancer researcher, cancer is a thing one deals with all day long, but at a very s…

I didn't need to grow old to watch relatives and friends fighting cancer. I know how serious it is, and I really admire that you're working in that particular field. That said, I used the metaphor on purpose, because of its power, because I think it's a perfectly valid analogy.

I still think you lack perspective -- maybe standing "back from the fire" a bit. I would never, ever use that word to express anything about a lousy programming topic.

Re: The Cancers In The Ruby Community

#37

Post by sycr »

And with that, I'm getting back to work. I enjoy writing with Ruby, and Rails has made web development a joy for me. Beyond that, I don't find these kinds of things interesting in the least. I'd wager that most of its user base (Ruby that is) feels much the same way.

Re: The Cancers In The Ruby Community

#38

Post by sleight42 »

txus wrote: post #27
petercooper wrote: post #24

It's the latest attempt to define a singular "Ruby community" from a tiny subset someone has encountered and pin FUD on it, giving ignorant third parties a bad impression of Ruby in general. I frequently encounter people who say things like "Ruby is all drama", "I chose Python because Ruby is full of bickering hipsters" or "I've always found rails programmers rather arrogant." Lies (or gross generalizations at best)…

I didn't mean to give a bad impression of Ruby. I think (and many people have pointed out) that the problems I outline are valid for many developer communities, if not all of them. In the end, those communities are human, and share a good amount of our defects.

You do the Ruby community that you seek to improve a disservice when you use a title that troll baitish. In fairness, you're not the only one I see doing this. There are many bloggers who use the same tactic. I have occasionally been guilty of this in the past though I cautiously avoid the practice now.

More specifically, have you attended any regional Ruby conferences? It is almost certainly a community unto itself: those developers who take the time away from their jobs and families to attempt to better themselves by learning from others. The (Ruby) conference-going community is demonstrably better than at least two out of your three arguments.

As for the Pareto principle, it seems unfair to paint the "Ruby community" with such a broad brush while then going on to say the same of the OSS community at large. It's a universal problem. It should not have been raised in the context of your post.

Finally, you provided no constructive advice in your blog post. How was this post supposed to be helpful?

I for one am tired of the negativity.

This post, by providing only destructive criticism, ironically only serves to exacerbate the public image that some paint Rubyists with.

Re: The Cancers In The Ruby Community

#39

Post by mattbriggs »

salimmadjd wrote: post #22

Maybe because rails is like a religion-based on faith. As an old-timer who started web programming on perl/cgi I've always found rails programmers rather arrogant and a bit off-putting. I say rails because this seems to be the main driver behind Ruby's growth. Rails seems to work magically for first-timers and without knowing what's happening it allows anyone to build sophisticated web applications. It basically expe…

Honestly, the magic thing is really overstated. The most magical thing in rails is that methods are defined on your models based on the framework reading your schema when it launches, which granted, is pretty magical, but ActiveRecord aside there isn't much else.

I spent some time doing ASP.net Webforms, now THAT is a magical framework. To the point where I would say only around 1% of the people who used it had the slightest clue as to what was actually happening. Rails doesn't hold a candle to webforms in terms of magic, but for some reason it is always referred to that way, and I have never heard anyone say anything like that for webforms (or seaside, or lift, or yesod)

Re: The Cancers In The Ruby Community

#40

Post by LoneWolf »

Maybe not just the ruby community, I feel the same about the node community, from my rather short experience, most of the time I see a lot of them praising ruby/node/etc as the ultimate solution to everything, and that makes me run from those communities and consequently the languages/frameworks, and that is the main reason I dont have much experience with ruby/node the community ends up making me avoid the technologies that may be good or not, I'm not going to argue that.

Looking into other communities, specifically Java, C# and PHP I don't see this kind of behavior, yes sometimes someone like that shows up, but from my experience it's less than the previously mentioned.

Please note that this is merely my personal experience, but I would like to know other people experiences with these communities.

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