Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why Generation Y Is Causing The Great Migration Of The 21st Century

placeshakers.wordpress.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 139 posts

Re: Why Generation Y Is Causing The Great Migration Of The 21st Century

#61

Post by _delirium »

hkarthik wrote: post #53
datasage wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree there are schools that are terrible, student success is not solely the responsibly of the school. A child that is in a stable home environment that values education and exploration can probably do just as much as a good school can. Now we tend to self segregate and choose to live in places with people like us. As professionals choose to live in cities instead of suburbs, schools around them will likely…

Once you're a parent, you'll worry about two things with regards to school choices: 1) Curriculum 2) Safety It's one thing to make the argument that most public schools are mediocre and the parents need to be more involved in their kids lives to make sure they stay focused and do well. But it's quite another to willingly send your kids to a school with drugs, gang violence, and an abundance of teen pregnancies just b…

There's nothing inherently placing good schools in the suburbs and bad ones in the urban areas, though. These things historically have shifted in many cities, in respond to a wide range of things like housing stock.

For example, in NYC the center has gentrified; most of the slummy areas of Manhattan are now desirable to live in. While areas that used to be quiet and suburban in Queens and the Bronx have ended up being sketchy, in a sort of inversion. In most of Europe that's also happened; if you can help it, you don't want to send your kid to a school district in the Paris suburbs, if there's any way you can manage to get them into a good urban district.

As a different example, Houston is developing into a strange multiple-rings shape. The city center is gentrifying (medical center, Rice area, downtown), while the inner suburbs are going downhill as the housing stock gets older (60s/70s-construction suburban neighborhoods aren't looking so good anymore), and then really far away suburbs with newer construction (20+ miles, 1990s-present housing stock) are upscale again.

Re: Why Generation Y Is Causing The Great Migration Of The 21st Century

#62

Post by gradstudent »

learc83 wrote: post #54
aboodman wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't entirely the having to manually drive that people don't like about driving. It's also the time and cost to run, park, insure, maintain, etc. Driverless cars won't help most of this. No matter who is doing the driving, walking a few blocks is more convenient than driving a mile. And anyway, walking is more fun. I grew up in suburbs, and the article described my experience perfectly. I may someday move away fr…

>It's also the time and cost to run, park, insure, maintain, etc. Driverless cars won't help most of this. Driverless cars will help almost all of those. Think how much more viable zip cars would become if you didn't have to get to the car in the first place. If you could just call a car with a smartphone app and it would show up. Parking is a non issue because it drops you off at the door, and it can go park whereve…

>Driverless cars will help almost all of those. Think how much more viable zip cars would become if you didn't have to get to the car in the first place. If you could just call a car with a smartphone app and it would show up.

Congratulations: You've just described taxi cabs.

Re: Why Generation Y Is Causing The Great Migration Of The 21st Century

#63

Post by nitrogen »

sliverstorm wrote: post #32
TheFuture wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The self driving car will be much more energy efficient, especially if they can communicate with each other to optimize traffic flow

Improving traffic flow is a win, but only a small win. Lugging around the mass of the car and yourself is still by far and away the biggest energy cost of operating a car, not sitting at a stoplight or getting stuck in stop-and-go. Clearing up 1 mile of stop-and-go is not going to make up for the 9 miles from your house to the city streets on your 10-mile commute.

But most of a car's energy is spent accelerating, with the rest spent fighting wind resistance. Improved traffic flow helps with both -- no stop and go means no energy wasted to braking, and automated car trains will allow cars to take turns drafting off one another for a significant reduction in drag.

Notice that cars have markedly different highway vs. city mileage ratings. The old BMW I used to drive would get better than 26 (not great by today's standards) on an open freeway, but 17-18 in city traffic due to repeated acceleration and idling. Algorithmically optimized traffic flow would allow cars to spend more time in the highway range.

Re: Why Generation Y Is Causing The Great Migration Of The 21st Century

#64

Post by nitrogen »

TheFuture wrote: post #22
learc83 wrote: post #5

There's plenty of truth in that article, but I can't help but think that this trend is almost purely a product of demographic changes. People wait longer to get married and have children, so there way more 25-30 year olds who worry more about living within walking distance to a bar and less about a backyard and a nice school. Many of the urban Gen Y the article talks about will move back to the suburbs when they have…

EXACTLY. This notion that gen y is some sort of elightend urban dweller is ridiculous. Gen y is the most immature gen ever in American history. They treat college like a party, an excuse to extend childish behavior, and just throw the bill on some low interest student loans. No wonder they all rent, their credit is terrible. And then they don't get that 80k job handed to them, so they still work at Starbucks at 26yrs…

They treat college like a party, an excuse to extend childish behavior

Are you sure this is a recent phenomenon? Just two examples I'm aware of:

1978: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0077975/

1985: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0089886/

Re: Why Generation Y Is Causing The Great Migration Of The 21st Century

#65

Post by sien »

toyg wrote: post #7
learc83 wrote: post #5

There's plenty of truth in that article, but I can't help but think that this trend is almost purely a product of demographic changes. People wait longer to get married and have children, so there way more 25-30 year olds who worry more about living within walking distance to a bar and less about a backyard and a nice school. Many of the urban Gen Y the article talks about will move back to the suburbs when they have…

The self-driving car will still need energy to run. Suburbs are built on the principle that energy is cheap. That is no longer the case.

It is the case. Natural gas spot prices are at a low.

http://mjperry.blogspot.com.au/2012/04/natural-gas-prices-fa...

As fracking takes off globally they'll probably decline even further.

Cars can run on natural gas. Many, perhaps even the majority of taxis do in Australia.

When people get self-driving cars whatever is most economic, natural gas, petroleum or electric power will be used.

Re: Why Generation Y Is Causing The Great Migration Of The 21st Century

#66

Post by _delirium »

saryant wrote: post #13
rollypolly wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dream of a post-car America. But wouldn't that require places like Houston to build massive amounts of public transport?

Yes, of course. And I don't really expect that to happen. Right now Houston has one light rail line running from Reliant Stadium, through the med center and Rice University/Museum District into downtown. They are building several new lines right now but still aren't reaching into the suburbs. I don't expect Houston to become a post-car city in the reasonable future.

There's occasional talk of running commuter rail on the I-45 corridor from Houston to Galveston, through Clear Lake and other SE suburbs, on the existing (little-used) freight line. If Los Angeles can do it with Metrolink (which similarly runs on existing track), Houston should be able to do it, but I'm not holding my breath. I believe there's substantial demand; the park-n-ride lots for the downtown express buses from Clear Lake have been completely overflowing for the past few years, as driving on I-45 has gotten less appealing with the ever-increasing traffic.

I do see more construction nearer to the center, at least. There are condos and townhomes in the Medical Center area that were abandoned and/or slums 10 years ago.

Re: Why Generation Y Is Causing The Great Migration Of The 21st Century

#67

Post by aboodman »

learc83 wrote: post #54
aboodman wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't entirely the having to manually drive that people don't like about driving. It's also the time and cost to run, park, insure, maintain, etc. Driverless cars won't help most of this. No matter who is doing the driving, walking a few blocks is more convenient than driving a mile. And anyway, walking is more fun. I grew up in suburbs, and the article described my experience perfectly. I may someday move away fr…

>It's also the time and cost to run, park, insure, maintain, etc. Driverless cars won't help most of this. Driverless cars will help almost all of those. Think how much more viable zip cars would become if you didn't have to get to the car in the first place. If you could just call a car with a smartphone app and it would show up. Parking is a non issue because it drops you off at the door, and it can go park whereve…

Someone needs to pay for the fuel. Someone needs to pay for the insurance. Someone needs to pay for parking, the technical development, the maintenance, and the infrastructure. Guess who that someone is? You. In the fees you pay for this service (or in taxes that subsidize it).

No matter how much tech you throw at it, walking down to the corner market for vegetables is more efficient (in a purely value/cost sense) than driving the same amount of time.

My wife and I lived in New York for several years. We walked a few blocks to the grocery nearly every day. Was it awesome every time? Honestly, no. Winters can be brutal.

But it was better than trying to hail a cab and wasting 10 bucks. And in the end, it felt good. Walking a little every day is good for you.

I think driverless cars will eventually revolutionize longer trips, but I don't see it competing with living in urban cores much. Many people want to be able to walk or ride a bicycle as part of their daily routine. Many people want to be in close physical proximity to other people. Driverless cars don't reduce any of these desires.

Re: Why Generation Y Is Causing The Great Migration Of The 21st Century

#68

Post by dhughes »

wtn wrote: post #14
scarmig wrote: post #11

I'm sympathetic to the viewpoint that it's important to watch cities as central to our future. This article, however, relies a bit much on psychological gobbledygook. Helicopter parents, Friends , the Google bus... Even the one graph they provide is more or less incomprehensible. What would be useful to see is land prices in inner urban areas, average lived population density, and comparative migration patterns for y…

Chicago shrank by 6.9% from 2000-2010.

And I think Detroit disappeared, didn't it?

Re: Why Generation Y Is Causing The Great Migration Of The 21st Century

#69

Post by danking00 »

TheFuture wrote: post #22
learc83 wrote: post #5

There's plenty of truth in that article, but I can't help but think that this trend is almost purely a product of demographic changes. People wait longer to get married and have children, so there way more 25-30 year olds who worry more about living within walking distance to a bar and less about a backyard and a nice school. Many of the urban Gen Y the article talks about will move back to the suburbs when they have…

EXACTLY. This notion that gen y is some sort of elightend urban dweller is ridiculous. Gen y is the most immature gen ever in American history. They treat college like a party, an excuse to extend childish behavior, and just throw the bill on some low interest student loans. No wonder they all rent, their credit is terrible. And then they don't get that 80k job handed to them, so they still work at Starbucks at 26yrs…

Can you back up any of this with statistics?

My anecdotal, local information shows people highly motivated to do things outside of the University and heading to upper 5 or 6 figure salaries at tech start ups, financial firms, and established software and engineering companies.

I also see students pursuing advanced degrees in Physics, Math, and other sciences who truly want to do research that expands our understanding of the world.

Do I think we're "some sort of elightend [sic] urban dweller"? No. But I certainly am skeptical that we any more immature than the generations before us, of the generations to come.

Post reply on HN