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A group of scientists set out to study quick learners. Then saw they don't exist

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Re: A group of scientists set out to study quick learners. Then saw they don't exist

#31
post #5

It seems unlikely that everyone learns at an identical rate, and the article itself seems to contradict that conclusion: "The fastest quarter of students improved their accuracy on each concept (or knowledge component) by about 2.6 percentage points after each practice attempt, while the slowest quarter of students improved by about 1.7 percentage points." That's a small difference in a single incremental component,…

If this is true, which I think it is, this bring another, very important question: How this article got published? Who initiated it, who paid for it and why? What was the motive behind this publication?

"This story was written by Jill Barshay and produced by The Hechinger Report, a nonprofit, independent news organization focused on inequality and innovation in education."

I'm sure The Hechinger Report wants to promote the idea that achievement gaps can be closed by simply giving The Hechinger Report more funding.

Re: A group of scientists set out to study quick learners. Then saw they don't exist

#32
post #5

It seems unlikely that everyone learns at an identical rate, and the article itself seems to contradict that conclusion: "The fastest quarter of students improved their accuracy on each concept (or knowledge component) by about 2.6 percentage points after each practice attempt, while the slowest quarter of students improved by about 1.7 percentage points." That's a small difference in a single incremental component,…

> That's a small difference in a single incremental component, but it represents a difference in learning rate of a whopping 35%

I guess I see the glass as half full, because that’s easy to overcome.

If a top learner is only 30% better, an average person could study for an hour and a half instead of an hour and easily surpass them. Time management is the ultimate superpower, and it’s something you can get better at, not something you are born with.

Re: A group of scientists set out to study quick learners. Then saw they don't exist

#34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are correct, but it's sad that education isn't about knowledge. We're forced by market conditions to seek money more than knowledge. I've developed quite a cynical view of the world, with each new truth that's revealed about our society and the nature of people, my faith and trust lowers. But is it really cynical if, everywhere you look, you find evidence of its truth? Rhetorical question but I think about it dai…

You can very much make education about knowledge, god knows i have always been thirsty for knowledge, but that’s the adhd in me seeking novelty. I think that the broader society doesn’t encourage those who seek knowledge for the sake of knowledge, the know-it-alls, it doesn’t promote curiosity because curious minds question everything and leave no stone untouched, you don’t want that, you dont want people questioning…

The world needs ditch diggers as much as it needs PhD’s. We can come up with fictional stories about how robots or AI will magically do everything, but in the real world you need people to dig holes.

Training people to follow instructions is a necessary kind of education. You can already see problems forming as a result of how education has changed in the last few years. Lots of people who can code but a massive shortage of anyone who can put up drywall or service a boiler.

Re: A group of scientists set out to study quick learners. Then saw they don't exist

#35
post #5

It seems unlikely that everyone learns at an identical rate, and the article itself seems to contradict that conclusion: "The fastest quarter of students improved their accuracy on each concept (or knowledge component) by about 2.6 percentage points after each practice attempt, while the slowest quarter of students improved by about 1.7 percentage points." That's a small difference in a single incremental component,…

> That's a small difference in a single incremental component, but it represents a difference in learning rate of a whopping 35% I guess I see the glass as half full, because that’s easy to overcome. If a top learner is only 30% better, an average person could study for an hour and a half instead of an hour and easily surpass them. Time management is the ultimate superpower, and it’s something you can get better at,…

> an average person could study for an hour and a half instead of an hour and easily surpass them

They would need to do this consistently every day for their entire school career.

Also, what if it's exactly this behaviour that creates the top (book) learners to begin with?

In my experience, most people just don't have any interest or motivation to sit and work hard on book learning things every single day for years on end.

Some people want to do work on practical stuff, others want to spend their time on athletics, and yet others want to spend time involved in social activities say creating music or other kinds of performance art etc.

Re: A group of scientists set out to study quick learners. Then saw they don't exist

#36
Another slam dunk psychological study straight into the garbage bin.

It's very frustrating with these studies because they don't attempt to normalize anything at all. Imagine teaching derivatives and finding that some students learn faster than others. Their excuse? Oh it must be because they did fractions when making pancakes.

One of the easiest ways to create a replicable study, which they won't ever do, would be to place students who have no experience typing (which is common for every generation) and see which ones learn fastest. If you are bothered by this then we can do learning piano, filtering out any student which may have musical practice ahead of time. It would be easy to find. Hypothesis would be that those with higher IQ have a higher rate of mastery.

Re: A group of scientists set out to study quick learners. Then saw they don't exist

#37
> Despite being in the same course, students’ initial performance varies substantially from about 55% correct for those in the lower half to 75% for those in the upper half. In contrast, and much to our surprise, we found students to be astonishingly similar in estimated learning rate, typically increasing by about 0.1 log odds or 2.5% in accuracy per opportunity.

It sounds like students were pre-tested, given instruction, and then post-tested. The researchers assume that students who did better on a pre-test were solely leveraging prior knowledge. The researchers do not consider that higher pre-test scores could have been due to the ability of some students to discern the correct answer from context, analogies, or first principles. Students who are able to do so would be seen as "quick learners" by their teachers and peers — though not by these researchers. These students would not need as much time to master all of the content in a lesson, since they would grasp perhaps 50% more of it than their peers right out of the gate.

The researchers focus on the fact that these students appear to learn the additional bits at roughly the same rate as their peers. But of course, if they have much less left to cover in a given lesson, then they will be done with the lesson well before their peers. By most definitions, this makes them 'quicker learners', assuming their initial performance was not based solely on prior knowledge, but was also based on their ability to figure out some of the material from the initial questions themselves.

Also, one would assume that the last parts of a lesson are the hardest to learn, so a student who understood 90% of the lesson at first might still be learning the last 10% faster than a student who came into the lesson understanding 50% of the lesson (when such student gets to the 90% point). However, the student who student who starts at 90% might appear to learn at the same rate as the other student because the other student is getting the 'low-hanging fruit' and moving from 50% to 60%. This should not be considered equivalent to moving from 90% to 100%.

Re: A group of scientists set out to study quick learners. Then saw they don't exist

#38

This is obviously complete nonsense, no need to read the article.

One interesting fact is that they concede that some students are able to memorize more quickly than other students. It is hard to believe that students who can memorize easily would, as a group, not learn at a faster rate than students who struggle to memorize.

Re: A group of scientists set out to study quick learners. Then saw they don't exist

#39
post #5

It seems unlikely that everyone learns at an identical rate, and the article itself seems to contradict that conclusion: "The fastest quarter of students improved their accuracy on each concept (or knowledge component) by about 2.6 percentage points after each practice attempt, while the slowest quarter of students improved by about 1.7 percentage points." That's a small difference in a single incremental component,…

> That's a small difference in a single incremental component, but it represents a difference in learning rate of a whopping 35% I guess I see the glass as half full, because that’s easy to overcome. If a top learner is only 30% better, an average person could study for an hour and a half instead of an hour and easily surpass them. Time management is the ultimate superpower, and it’s something you can get better at,…

It could also be that learning rate drops the more time you spend during the day as brain gets fatigued. And in addition what if it drops more for the same people who already had a lower speed.
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