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Physicist Uses Math to Beat Traffic Ticket

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Re: Physicist Uses Math to Beat Traffic Ticket

#51

Post by KingOfB »

joshmlewis wrote: post #16

Yeah, that took some dedication, and because we aren't all as dedicated or physicist here are some practical tips I've learned: 1. When an officer asks how fast you were going, never say anything over the speed limit or that's automatic guilt. Just decline to know or tell. A lot of people say within a +5-10mph range over the speed limit because they think that is "ok", but in fact anything over the speed limit is spe…

Other Helpers:

- Use the most official title: 'Yes Trooper', 'Thank you sheriff', etc.

- Be honest, authentic and remorseful, but not apologetic. (I don't agree with #1)

- Be well groomed. After I got my beard and hair cut, I stopped getting tickets. I've gotten 8 consecutive warnings, most verbal. Before getting 'cleaned up', I got 9 tickets and 1 warning.

- Have a woman in the car. Doesn't have to say anything, just smile and reply to questions.

- Pull over, turn on the dome light and leave your hands on the steering wheel. I lower my window when a flashlight hits me, and only get paper work in response to a command.

My streak of warnings still dumbfounds me. I even got pulled over twice after a superbowl for a tail light and got a verbal warning twice.

Re: Physicist Uses Math to Beat Traffic Ticket

#52

Post by cellularmitosis »

xxbondsxx wrote: post #18
drucken wrote: post #5

Haha, nice way to beat the system. But I doubt the symmetry of those two graphs. Surely, there is no (ordinary) retail car on the planet which can accelerate as fast as it decelerates?

MechE here, the limiting factor for car accelerations is usually the static coefficient of friction between the car tires and the road, _not_ the power of the brakes or strength of the engine. Without ABS braking, it is quite easy to "skid" while applying a harsh brake because you overcome the limit of force between the tires and the road. Similarly, it is quite easy to "burnout" as well with a strong engine for the…

This is true for the deceleration side of things (nearly any car can lock it's brakes at any speed), but on the acceleration side of the curve, this is typically only true in first, and perhaps second gear. It would take a truly obscene amount of power to smoke the tires while already in 5th gear (assuming you dont "cheat" by popping the clutch).

Re: Physicist Uses Math to Beat Traffic Ticket

#53

Post by kooshball »

whackberry wrote: post #47
rdl wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The #1 thing I do when stopped is go out of my way to 1) prioritize officer safety and 2) avoid generating probable cause for a vehicle search. i.e. pull over in a place which is safe for both vehicles and for the officer on foot, keep hands visible all the time, turn on dome light, put keys on dashboard, and be polite. Also I tend to announce any moves, like "my wallet is in my back pocket, reaching for it with my l…

> my wallet is in my back pocket, reaching for it with my left hand If I were a officer and someone narrated what they're doing like that I'd immediately find it suspicious. Just say you're gonna get your wallet, cops aren't all completely stupid. "I'm reaching for my wallet with my left hand sir" sounds retarded.

It actually makes a lot of sense. Just like you don't start grabbing stuff from the glove compartment unannounced. How those the cop know if you're getting a gun or not? The point is to make him feel safe so he doesn't accidentally shoot you for getting your registration.

Re: Physicist Uses Math to Beat Traffic Ticket

#54

Post by defen »

If you're in California, trial by written declaration[1] is a great way to deal with minor traffic violations. The way it works is that you fill out a form[2] giving your version of events, and submit a check for the amount of the ticket. The beauty of this is that the officer also has to fill out a form giving his version of events - and if he doesn't, you automatically win and your money is refunded. It's the equivalent of the officer not showing up to your court case. If he does submit the form you might still win if the judge sides with you. And if you lose, you can request another trial by written declaration. I'm 2/2 using this strategy for minor violations, and I haven't had to waste any time in traffic court. In both cases I won because the officer did not submit his version of events - probably because it's boring work and they had better things to do.

[1] http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d17/vc40902.htm

[2] http://www.courts.ca.gov/documents/tr205.pdf

Re: Physicist Uses Math to Beat Traffic Ticket

#55

Post by cellularmitosis »

excuse-me wrote: post #13
drucken wrote: post #5

Haha, nice way to beat the system. But I doubt the symmetry of those two graphs. Surely, there is no (ordinary) retail car on the planet which can accelerate as fast as it decelerates?

A modern hatchback (VW Golf) with good tires on a perfect road can decelerate at 1g with a pro driver. In tests regular drivers posted between 0.9 - 0.6g in a range of cars from Ferrari to Honda civic. To do 1g in acceleration you would need to do 0-60 in 2.75s that MIGHT be possible for a $1M supercar (or a bike ;-)

The Ariel Atom can do that in 2.9 seconds for about $60k USD. On a scatter plot of acceleration vs sticker price, the Atom is a true outlier.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6v4YNkurhLk

The only point on that plot which would be even more of an outlier would be a shifter-kart.

Re: Physicist Uses Math to Beat Traffic Ticket

#56

Post by reneherse »

rdl wrote: post #34
joshu wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a GT-R can do that. It's certainly close.

GT-R is a $1mm supercar that happens to be underpriced at $80k.

Which is what happens when the techniques of lean manufacturing are applied to the supercar design brief. First of this vein was the Honda NSX, I believe.

I have a hunch that the reliability of these cars far exceeds that of the big Italian names...

Re: Physicist Uses Math to Beat Traffic Ticket

#57

Post by joshmlewis »

KingOfB wrote: post #51
joshmlewis wrote: post #16

Yeah, that took some dedication, and because we aren't all as dedicated or physicist here are some practical tips I've learned: 1. When an officer asks how fast you were going, never say anything over the speed limit or that's automatic guilt. Just decline to know or tell. A lot of people say within a +5-10mph range over the speed limit because they think that is "ok", but in fact anything over the speed limit is spe…

Other Helpers: - Use the most official title: 'Yes Trooper', 'Thank you sheriff', etc. - Be honest, authentic and remorseful, but not apologetic. (I don't agree with #1) - Be well groomed. After I got my beard and hair cut, I stopped getting tickets. I've gotten 8 consecutive warnings, most verbal. Before getting 'cleaned up', I got 9 tickets and 1 warning. - Have a woman in the car. Doesn't have to say anything, jus…

Yeah I didn't mean to be dishonest there. Honesty does help. But it also makes it an auto admission of guilt. Use discretion playing either card really in your situation.

Re: Physicist Uses Math to Beat Traffic Ticket

#58

Post by joshmlewis »

vacri wrote: post #38
joshmlewis wrote: post #16

Yeah, that took some dedication, and because we aren't all as dedicated or physicist here are some practical tips I've learned: 1. When an officer asks how fast you were going, never say anything over the speed limit or that's automatic guilt. Just decline to know or tell. A lot of people say within a +5-10mph range over the speed limit because they think that is "ok", but in fact anything over the speed limit is spe…

It may not always be a good idea, but for me, when I get pulled over, I get out of the car immediately. In my 20s I was pulled over so many times for 'random' car checks that were really about bored policemen passing time, that I started to get out of the car first to upset the dynamic. It helps that I'm really tall, but it's worth it for the look on their face when it turns from 'bored paternalism' to 'we might have…

Yeah, I agree with the above poster, horrible idea. Most cops in my experience aren't what the internet makes them out to be. They do their job because they want to serve and protect citizens and having to "change the power dynamic" and "avoid being talked down to" is just silly and jumping out of your car will put cops on edge very quickly. You don't want that. Most of the time they pull someone over it's because you've done something to look shady or you're actually breaking the law.

Re: Physicist Uses Math to Beat Traffic Ticket

#59

Post by vacri »

joshmlewis wrote: post #58
vacri wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may not always be a good idea, but for me, when I get pulled over, I get out of the car immediately. In my 20s I was pulled over so many times for 'random' car checks that were really about bored policemen passing time, that I started to get out of the car first to upset the dynamic. It helps that I'm really tall, but it's worth it for the look on their face when it turns from 'bored paternalism' to 'we might have…

Yeah, I agree with the above poster, horrible idea. Most cops in my experience aren't what the internet makes them out to be. They do their job because they want to serve and protect citizens and having to "change the power dynamic" and "avoid being talked down to" is just silly and jumping out of your car will put cops on edge very quickly. You don't want that. Most of the time they pull someone over it's because yo…

Every time I've been pulled over to date has been for Driving Whilst Young or Driving An Old Car, and has never been for breaking the law. Shady? I can't answer that, because I'm not sure how one drives shadily.

Those times I've been pulled over have been about bored police passing the time on a power trip, not 'protect and serve' stuff (as evident by my comment above regarding never having a ticket nor being taken in cuffs). It's a power play, and changing the dynamic is a subtle form of passive resistance. Like I started out with, it may not always be a good idea, but for a random stop, you're not going to end up cuffed fro leaving your car.

Re: Physicist Uses Math to Beat Traffic Ticket

#60

Post by vacri »

DerKommissar wrote: post #42
vacri wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To quote myself: being free to move isn't about posing a physical threat . I'm not standing over them, and rarely approach them directly - it's not like I'm panicking the officer. As for the 'handcuffed trip to the station', that's never happened to me, and I've done it close to a dozen times. I've also never ended up with a ticket while doing this. What kind of backward country do you live in where you're not free t…

The problem is one of statistics. Whenever they pull someone over, which is often, they have to judge what you're going to do. For them, the chances of you doing something crazy like speeding off, pulling a gun, etc. is not insignificant. That's what they're thinking about when they're walking up to your car. They've been trained about what things to look for. And getting out of your car is the way many violent inter…

I have found the police to be politer and less patronising when I'm standing out of my car talking politely than when I'm sitting in my car at random traffic stops. Also, where I am, people are not armed as a rule, so fear of guns is there, but at a minimum. If having guns means you have to be too scared to get out of your car for fear of arrest, I'm not interested in having them. It's a somewhat ironic twist that the whole purpose of having an armed population in the US was to keep government authority in check, but here at the coalface of government authority, it gives them even more power out of fear.

And getting out of your car is the way many violent interactions begin.

It is, which is why you remain polite. It's not going to work if you're angry. It does (usually) change the way they talk, since on their part you now need to be managed, which means not going on a power trip. Remain friendly and they won't fear for physical safety, and you're now in a conversation where you're much less a submissive.

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