"Email is a distributed, asynchronous messaging protocol." What a complete disconnect from the users of email. To 99.99% of people who use email, Paul is correct: "Email is not a messaging protocol. It's a todo list. Or rather, my inbox is a todo list, and email is the way things get onto it." When people say "email", they almost always mean their email client. Failure to account for the common usage of the word and…
Email is not broken: It’s a framework, not an application
101–110 of 146 posts
Re: Email is not broken: It’s a framework, not an application
#102I thought this was obvious, but I guess not. When people say email is broken, they mean that their email client is broken. When people talk about fixing email, they mean producing a better email client. That the OP doesn't get this obscures his message to the point that I don't even think I get what he's saying. In the end, he doesn't disagree with people who say email is broken, because he tells them just to fix the…
I haven't been following this so closely, but the articles I have read seem to position these proposals as changes to e-mail as a system, if not as a protocol. I leave thinking the authors want to do something radical, to alter something longstanding, to go up against giant, ingrained players and conventions.
I don't think this post would have happened if we were instead hearing more about "new ways to use e-mail," or "adding functionality to an email client." I think the narrative is more like, as others in the thread have referenced, PG's frighteningly ambitious ideas, more like visionaries who are daring to challenge something so established.
Making a new email client that has some extra features is one thing. Changing email forever is another. I think that's what the post is reacting to.
Edit: and, anyway, I think sharpening the discussion by invoking the difference between the client and the protocol is useful, and hopefully will make future conversations about this more clear.
Re: Email is not broken: It’s a framework, not an application
#103I thought this was obvious, but I guess not. When people say email is broken, they mean that their email client is broken. When people talk about fixing email, they mean producing a better email client. That the OP doesn't get this obscures his message to the point that I don't even think I get what he's saying. In the end, he doesn't disagree with people who say email is broken, because he tells them just to fix the…
Re: Email is not broken: It’s a framework, not an application
#104This type of writing sure gets people excited and attracts many readers but it's a quite destructive way to think of our world. Just because something has certain annoying problems or has maybe become boring and mundane does not mean that the only way to make it better is to completely reconstruct it. Most "It's broken" essays usually come with a dangerous degree of hubris and presuppose that in order to make things better, the offending industry needs full destruction before it can be rebuilt and renewed in the image of writer's glorious new vision (often times this vision is not even presented - it seems that something being "broken" implies that there is a better and completely different way of doing it). Lessons learned doing things the old way become meaningless or at least decline in value because, well it's broken.. we didn't really learn that much right?
I agree that sometimes a complete re-framing is needed to get on the (more) correct path towards making something better or at least just to allow yourself to "think outside of the box". But going on a deconstruction campaign of everything that's served us reasonably well thus far is another box which you can easily trap yourself into.
Re: Email is not broken: It’s a framework, not an application
#105As the most basic form of communication, email is the place to look to solve peoples problems. If we are using email to do or accomplish something, that is an opportunity for a startup to build a new app that simplifies that specific form of communication, and solve the pain of using email which was clearly never meant for or is just a bandaid for that need.
Just look at your inbox and what you use it for and ask yourself, "Does this belong here? Could this be done better? If the Answer is Yes, Great, Go build a new startup!"
Before we had social bookmarking, we mass emailed our friends.
The way of the world and evolution is things diverge. They break off into smaller, hyper-focused products and services. This is how new categories are created and new brands succeed. This is a LAW OF NATURE, a LAW OF EVOLUTION and a LAW OF BRANDING.
Want to build something great and amazing, something frighteningly ambitious, look at your inbox and FIX EMAIL!!!
Re: Email is not broken: It’s a framework, not an application
#106For better or worse, email has been and always will be an application. When people say email, they almost always mean their email client and not the protocol. Sorry, that's just the fact. You can use energy trying to change that, but it seems like as much a waste of time as attempts to get the US to change to metric.
Yes, but which client? I use mutt, my office manager at work uses Outlook, our accountant uses Gmail, and our advertising manager uses Yahoo.
The fact that we can all email each other seamlessly is inherently because of the common protocol, even though we don't think of it consciously when talking about email.
Re: Email is not broken: It’s a framework, not an application
#107For better or worse, email has been and always will be an application. When people say email, they almost always mean their email client and not the protocol. Sorry, that's just the fact. You can use energy trying to change that, but it seems like as much a waste of time as attempts to get the US to change to metric.
Yes, but which client? I use mutt, my office manager at work uses Outlook, our accountant uses Gmail, and our advertising manager uses Yahoo.
The fact that we can all email each other seamlessly is inherently because of the common protocol, even though we don't think of it consciously when talking about email.
Re: Email is not broken: It’s a framework, not an application
#108I thought this was obvious, but I guess not. When people say email is broken, they mean that their email client is broken. When people talk about fixing email, they mean producing a better email client. That the OP doesn't get this obscures his message to the point that I don't even think I get what he's saying. In the end, he doesn't disagree with people who say email is broken, because he tells them just to fix the…
These are PG's words: "This new protocol should be a todo list protocol, not a messaging protocol," http://paulgraham.com/ambitious.html
I think PG is in the minority when he considers a conversation over email a "degenerate case" of a TODO list item. A public-writeable personal todo list application is separate from my email client, whether it uses the email protocol to send todo items, or a new protocol to send todo items, or http to put todo items on a centralized database, etc.
Re: Email is not broken: It’s a framework, not an application
#109Re: Email is not broken: It’s a framework, not an application
#110There are so many problems to solve in the world. Why would you take the one system that has been working perfectly for the last 40 years, and rebuild it from scratch ? To all hungry devs who can't wait to build something amazing: don't try to reinvent the wheel, build on top of it. Leave the email be, and focus on what's next.
Nothing is beyond disruption. Just because a technology is sufficiently functional doesn't mean there's no benefit to rethinking it.