Covid-19 3rd leading cause of death among Canadians in 2022 • Hacker News Board

Re: Covid-19 3rd leading cause of death among Canadians in 2022

#71

Post by vlovich123 » Mon, Nov 27, 2023, 10:11 PM UTC

naasking wrote: post #57

amatecha wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, first off I'm going to say "citation needed", but secondly, I haven't had a single transmissible illness since I started wearing KN95 whenever I'm around people indoors. This includes going to crowded markets, trans-continental flights, a recent concert... Of course, wearing some flimsy loose thing that barely even covers your face (like those "surgical" masks that are typically handed out) is certainly going t…

> I haven't had a single transmissible illness since I started wearing KN95 whenever I'm around people indoors You mean you haven't gotten ill since you started being hyperparanoid about getting ill? Sure, that's not really surprising. Tying the result specifically to the masking itself is still speculative though, as would be generalizing your specific case to the whole population, eg. as you say, "decently fitting…

This really gives off to me the same vibes as when doctors were up in arms that washing hands before surgery couldn’t possibly have an effect on the outcome.

We know that such viruses have to enter your body through eyes, ears, nose or throat or there’s no way to get an infection. Why do you think it’s so surprising that blocking access to your respiratory system by a filter that is small enough to exclude the virus (whether cold, flu or COVID) prevents you from getting sick?

Furthermore, if I recall correctly there’s studies showing efficacy of having even a basic cloth covering helps because the thickness of the material means that even if the virus is small enough to get through, the probability of crossing all the layers through the cloth is harder. Picking up illness from contact with a surface -> touching your face is a much more difficult infection vector than the direct access port available through the communication ports on your head.

Re: Covid-19 3rd leading cause of death among Canadians in 2022

#72

Post by Scoundreller » Mon, Nov 27, 2023, 10:15 PM UTC

jeffbee wrote: post #70

tptacek wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

N95 vs. KN95 seems like an instructive example: people equate the two based on the effectiveness of the filtering media, but the salient difference is in the attachment mechanism --- most KN95s are ear-loops, and don't achieve especially tight coverings (similarly: the reuse concerns about N95s are less that the filter media can't be "recharged" or whatever, but rather that the elastic gives out). At any rate: masks…

I don't know what's "performative" about it. The respirator has a clear mechanism of action. They filter out almost all airborne viruses and are even better at filtering bacteria (which are larger). They also have the side benefit of making the wearer not want to eat airline "food" which I've noticed leaves me feeling better when I arrive. They are designed to be worn effectively even by illiterate manual laborers, s…

What I like about wearing a mask on a plane is that I rebreathe some exhaled moisture.

Though I did a flight in mid 2020 and I'd inhale, move mask, take bite/sip, exhale while putting mask back, and then breathe normally through mask. Was probably a bit unnecessary when the flights were basically empty, but reduced-risk eating/drinking is possible.

Re: Covid-19 3rd leading cause of death among Canadians in 2022

#73

Post by ceejayoz » Mon, Nov 27, 2023, 10:16 PM UTC

thegrim33 wrote: post #63

bilsbie wrote: post #35

Does this include a “with vs from” distinction?

It's extremely well known that this is a common objection to such claims. You'd think that if the data truly was died FROM covid, they would bend over backwards to make that really clear, in order to shut up "deniers". The fact that they don't mention or clarify the issue in anyway is pretty telling. I tried looking through the related sources and found nothing useful to clarify.

"Cause of death" is pretty clear.

Your theory is trivially debunkable by the numbers in the table.

The individual casues of death on in 2022 sum up to 334,121. The total number of deaths for the year is indicated as 334,081. If they're double/triple-counting ailments, they wouldn't match up. (I preusme the mismatch of ~40 is a typo or something in one of the rows.)

Re: Covid-19 3rd leading cause of death among Canadians in 2022

#74

Post by graeme » Mon, Nov 27, 2023, 10:17 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #58

graeme wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>the empirical evidence for masking, especially vs. the new strains, is quite weak If you're wearing an N95 or KN95 the filtration efficacy is quite high. Most of the mask studies looked at whether mask policies lowered covid. If you wear a mask in class but then take it off in the cafeteria or outside of school, the mask no longer has an effect. If, however, you wear a mask with high filtration efficacy while outsid…

N95 vs. KN95 seems like an instructive example: people equate the two based on the effectiveness of the filtering media, but the salient difference is in the attachment mechanism --- most KN95s are ear-loops, and don't achieve especially tight coverings (similarly: the reuse concerns about N95s are less that the filter media can't be "recharged" or whatever, but rather that the elastic gives out). At any rate: masks…

Completely agree that an ear loop is less effective than a headstrap. The question is: by how much?

This beard length mask study is a good source of data. They actually measured fitted filtration efficacy at different beard lengths, including zero beard.

N95 was near 100%. KN95 was between 80-90% (surprisingly, higher with a small bit of beard, around 0.5-1mm).

Now, you could certainly argue that 80-90% filtration is performative, but on what evidence?

We know from hepa filtration studies that lowering the concentration of virus in the air lowers infection amongst those in a room. So from physical mechanisms we would expect that reducing inhaled virus by 80-90% should likewise reduce risk of infection.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34006963/#&gid=article-figur...

Re: Covid-19 3rd leading cause of death among Canadians in 2022

#75

Post by Scoundreller » Mon, Nov 27, 2023, 10:17 PM UTC

Sakos wrote: post #68

vlovich123 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes they are effective, but don’t forget that they’re not perfect - your eyes and ears remain as access ports for the virus even when wearing a mask. Probably eyes is the biggest after respiratory because glasses have been shown to decrease infections if I recall correctly.

It doesn't need to be perfect in order to be effective. What's your point?

Personally, I think the ocular route has been under-investigated in transmission.

Re: Covid-19 3rd leading cause of death among Canadians in 2022

#76

Post by Eumenes » Mon, Nov 27, 2023, 10:17 PM UTC

twisteriffic wrote: post #67

Eumenes wrote: post #47

Its interesting how the deaths increased nearly 25% post vaccine roll out .. Not very effective

Interesting how deaths increased only 25% post pandemic precautions. Turns out the vaccine was fairly effective.

So effective that despite 80%+ of the population being inoculated it resulted in 25%+ more deaths? You gotta admit, that doesn't really make sense.

Re: Covid-19 3rd leading cause of death among Canadians in 2022

#77

Post by Krssst » Mon, Nov 27, 2023, 10:20 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #7

amatecha wrote: post #3

Ah, this is the perfect summary to explain to people when they ask "why are you still wearing a mask? COVID is over" or similar queries invalidating my caution around this virus. Worth noting is it was the 4th-leading cause of death in 2020 and 2021. Not sure why this is being downvoted into oblivion, as I regularly get some hassle from people about my strict adherence to wearing a mask indoors around people, and the…

People shouldn't bother you about wearing a mask, or bother storekeepers who request patrons mask, but a reason to push back on state-mandated masking isn't that COVID isn't serious (it clearly is), but rather that the empirical evidence for masking, especially vs. the new strains, is quite weak

I am a developer, not a doctor, so I just rely.on health authorities as imperfect as they are: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7106e1.htm .

Re: Covid-19 3rd leading cause of death among Canadians in 2022

#78

Post by junofan » Mon, Nov 27, 2023, 10:21 PM UTC

lukev wrote: post #25

chrisco255 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, if one ends their life prematurely by suicide, then suicide is the cause of death.

But that's not helpful for driving any kind of informed opinion or public health policy. It'd be like classifying nearly all deaths as caused by "cardiac arrest" even though that's the natural end state of most other causes of death. I might accept your argument in the small fraction of cases where natural death is not "reasonably foreseeable" (since that requirement was dropped in 2019).

The medical certificate usually has an immediate cause and a spot to write underlying causes. It goes to the local government and is used for things like life insurance, lawsuits, etc.

If there’s a concern at the policy level, usually you’d have a separate monitoring system.

Driving policy with population stats is not really the gold standard, in spite of what was communicated to the public during the pandemic. Usually you’d want to run some kind of controlled experiment or very rigorous observational study. That’s where the bulk of the success stories in medicine have come from historically.

Re: Covid-19 3rd leading cause of death among Canadians in 2022

#79

Post by prirun » Mon, Nov 27, 2023, 10:23 PM UTC

graphe wrote: post #61

amatecha wrote: post #3

Ah, this is the perfect summary to explain to people when they ask "why are you still wearing a mask? COVID is over" or similar queries invalidating my caution around this virus. Worth noting is it was the 4th-leading cause of death in 2020 and 2021. Not sure why this is being downvoted into oblivion, as I regularly get some hassle from people about my strict adherence to wearing a mask indoors around people, and the…

The air on a plane circulates and causes illness to many people, like people who have had plastic surgery are advised not to travel too soon for fear of infection. Have you found that it helps there?

I read an article about masking and airplanes that seemed reasonable:

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2022/07/covid-omi...

The basic advice is to unmask when it is okay to use your laptop. The plane is cruising and cabin air is completely exchanged with outside air every 2 minutes. The biggest risk, according to the article, is when the plane is on the ground.

Re: Covid-19 3rd leading cause of death among Canadians in 2022

#80

Post by jeffbee » Mon, Nov 27, 2023, 10:24 PM UTC

Scoundreller wrote: post #72

jeffbee wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what's "performative" about it. The respirator has a clear mechanism of action. They filter out almost all airborne viruses and are even better at filtering bacteria (which are larger). They also have the side benefit of making the wearer not want to eat airline "food" which I've noticed leaves me feeling better when I arrive. They are designed to be worn effectively even by illiterate manual laborers, s…

What I like about wearing a mask on a plane is that I rebreathe some exhaled moisture. Though I did a flight in mid 2020 and I'd inhale, move mask, take bite/sip, exhale while putting mask back, and then breathe normally through mask. Was probably a bit unnecessary when the flights were basically empty, but reduced-risk eating/drinking is possible.

I noticed something similar: no nosebleeds. I have only taken a few flights in the last several years though and I can't rule out that maybe the 737 MAX has a more humid interior atmosphere or something like that. But before I started wearing masks on airplanes I used to shoot saline spray up my nostrils every hour to keep the nosebleeds away.