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Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

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Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#171

Post by flutas »

jacquesm wrote: post #150
parl_match wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla is not breaking the law. This is a labor action, and considering Europe's general tenor on labor relations, this lawsuit is going to be a hilarious mistake.

They are breaking the law. They have (repeatedly) threatened strikers that they would take away their options which is how they managed to match compensation to begin with so this is very much a legal issue as well. That's why so many sympathy strikes broke out. What Tesla execs need to realize is that the world isn't North America and that different countries have different relationships between labor and management…

> edit: apparently it's worse than just stock:

I'll wait for the original source. An anonymous comment on reddit with no source, does not a valid claim make.

All I can find is (translated) claims that Tesla said they may remove the stock option program going forward and layoffs. [0] Which is a far cry from "holidays, bonuses, stock and insurance" or "stealing $7000"

> There have also been reports that employees have felt threatened by the company if they go on strike and it has been stated that various benefits could be withdrawn.

> - We have members who confirm this. Tesla executives have threatened layoffs. They have also threatened to withdraw the option program that Tesla has, where you get shares for a certain number of years," says IF Metall's contract secretary Veli-Pekka Säikkälä.

[0]: https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/orebro/facket-strejkande-p...

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#172

Post by xhubin »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #160
jacquesm wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are breaking the law. They have (repeatedly) threatened strikers that they would take away their options which is how they managed to match compensation to begin with so this is very much a legal issue as well. That's why so many sympathy strikes broke out. What Tesla execs need to realize is that the world isn't North America and that different countries have different relationships between labor and management…

>They are breaking the law. Wait, I'm super confused by this. If they really are breaking the law why isn't the government shutting them down instead of the unions striking? Isn't that the job of the government, to make sure every company follows the law? In my country, if you don't follow the law, the government institutions don't even let you open up shop, the unions are only there to negociate yearly wage increase…

Well according to the thread Tesla has threatened workers which is illegal but unless there is actual evidence of Tesla threatening there isn't much that can be done. This obviously isn't done yet so we'll see what happens but Tesla most likely will lose this battle and with so many people knowing about it, it could have a tremendous effect in other countries as well which is great!

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#174

Post by susano »

Not overly knowledgeable on Swedish law, but the idea that a public sector union can decide to block public services (in this case postal delivery of license plates) for a single company as a sympathy strike seems pretty nuts to me. Pretty sure Sweden would lose in European court at least (of course it would probably take a long time to percolate there).

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#175

Post by yterdy »

rsynnott wrote: post #114
papichulo2023 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This could be more expensive for Sweden if the US gov decides to retaliate (current or next one) or companies watching this and considering entering their market or not.

I mean, this is hardly the first time this has happened; US and other foreign companies have incurred the wrath of the unions in the Nordics before. Why would the US _government_ retaliate against the Swedish _government_ for a dispute between the Swedish unions and a company? What form would this retaliation take? Bear in mind that, for practical purposes, even if for some reason it wanted to (and again, why would i…

>Why would the US _government_ retaliate against the Swedish _government_ for a dispute between the Swedish unions and a company?

If you want to go down a fun rabbit hole, look into conspiracy theories about how many things Tesla's (and Amazon's and Apple's and Microsoft's and-) stock price is propping up.

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#176

Post by [deleted] »

mrpopo wrote: post #158
xkbarkar wrote: post #155

Lawsuit is about the state telling postnord a mail delivery company, to not deliver licence plates in some weitd sympathy action. Tesla won the suit and the licence plates have to be delivered. https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/Mo0V85/tesla-far-ut-sin...

Tesla was granted a temporary measure to deliver the licence plates until the lawsuit*

[deleted]

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#177

Post by jacquesm »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #169
jacquesm wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't get this. If they really are breaking the law why isn't the government shutting them down instead of the unions playing hardball? Isn't that the job of the government? That's the tricky bit about worker/employer relationships: it would still require a worker to bring a complaint and that worker will then surely be fired by Tesla because they're pretty good at retaliation. That would still make it worse for…

>that worker will then surely be fired by Tesla because they're pretty good at retaliation. Fired how? I though you can't fire people just like that in Sweden. >In theory Sweden is no different. But they're not going to step in to this until the unions and Tesla have had their options exhausted This still doesn't make sense. The law is the law, and breaking it is just as bad with or without union discussion, no? Like…

Of course you can fire someone. You then can be challenged, you have to show cause and what actions you took to build your case and there is a process to deal with that. And in the end if you got it wrong as the employer you have to pay up. But it's definitely possible to fire someone.

Not like in the US though, without any controls or oversight. Sweden is in that sense probably one of the better countries to be an employee in.

> This still doesn't make sense. The law is the law, and breaking it is just as bad with or without union discussion, no?

Yes. But the problem with these allegations is that you need to prove them and that isn't all that easy.

> Like if the law says you need to give your employees X, Y, Z and you haven't , the that's breaking the saw and the state should immediately intervine.

I agree with you, but in practice that's not how I have found the world to work. For the state to intervene someone has to make a formal complaint first. Otherwise the authorities will not make a move.

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#178

Post by brandonagr2 »

parl_match wrote: post #149
jacquesm wrote: post #148

The hubris is just off the scale. How about you simply follow the law. How hard can it be, if the Chinese can manufacture cars in Sweden then so can Americans.

Tesla is not breaking the law. This is a labor action, and considering Europe's general tenor on labor relations, this lawsuit is going to be a hilarious mistake.

Was it a mistake? They already won a preliminary injuction that the government must let them pick up the license plates

https://techcrunch.com/2023/11/27/sweden-sides-with-tesla-sa...

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#179

Post by eastbound »

TheMagicHorsey wrote: post #163

On a related note, I think you have to consider very carefully whether or not you can manufacture in Sweden. For some companies like Teenage Engineering, Elektron, etc.,it can make a lot of sense as your labor cost is such a small fraction of the total value of the product. But if you are in some kind of competitive market where the labor cost has the potential to erase your margins (and therefore return on the proje…

You say decades, but we don’t know whether it works over decades. For all I know, France is famous for strikes and we’ve lost all manufacturing. Almost all of Europe lost that, and it’s not like we’re good at startups either, we make some (heavily public-funded) and not even appear near the top #100 startups.

I don’t even remember meeting a single factory worker for the last ten years. Even ports: All of Marseille went on hard-core strikes, now it’s all done in Rotterdam. France is famous for the Saint Congés Payés in 1936, well, if we didn’t dance that much, maybe the Germans wouldn’t have invaded us like a walk in a park.

We can’t say that works over decades when all industries have fled (and I say fled, like one flees a socialist country, when factory managers were subdued into a cave and beaten up until they signed personnel agreements in the 1990).

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#180

Post by L-four »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #160
jacquesm wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are breaking the law. They have (repeatedly) threatened strikers that they would take away their options which is how they managed to match compensation to begin with so this is very much a legal issue as well. That's why so many sympathy strikes broke out. What Tesla execs need to realize is that the world isn't North America and that different countries have different relationships between labor and management…

>They are breaking the law. Wait, I'm super confused by this. If they really are breaking the law why isn't the government shutting them down instead of the unions striking? Isn't that the job of the government, to make sure every company follows the law? In my country, if you don't follow the law, the government institutions don't even let you open up shop, the unions are only there to negociate yearly wage increase…

I don't think the law works like that in any country. The law isn't a omnipresent Santa Claus. It's a slow bureaucracy, the unions can force the issue before the workers die of old age.
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