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No evidence screen time is negative for child cognitive development, well-being

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Re: No evidence screen time is negative for child cognitive development, well-being

#111

Post by sn9 »

nevinera wrote: post #41
onemoresoop wrote: post #23

Dubious at best. If one has children they notice quite visibly that screen time makes their children more agitated during the days they have screen time. And screen time is as addictive to children as it is to adults, and we should consider the effects they have on their developing brains.

When science doesn't match your personal observations, that doesn't make the science wrong. It also doesn't make your personal observations wrong - it usually (in my experience) means that you're measuring/observing different things (assuming you're reasonably intelligent, which I am doing). In this case, "cognitive development and well being" are complex concepts that probably do not map exactly (or maybe even gross…

No this study is actually garbage. What it considers screen time is way too broad to be useful.

People aren't worried about screens in general, but social media in particular as well as other smartphone applications that are engineered to keep you engaged.

See Johnathan Haidt's literature review here for what an actually critical reading of the literature would lead you to reasonably conclude: https://jonathanhaidt.substack.com/p/social-media-mental-ill...

Re: No evidence screen time is negative for child cognitive development, well-being

#113

Post by vidarh »

sickofparadox wrote: post #94
vidarh wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe. Or maybe the causal relationship doesn't go in the direction you assume without evidence, and maybe your cousin is just intolerant.

I can completely believe that whatever damage is being done to children by screens does not show up on an MRI scan. Having never even seen one in person, I have no assumptions about what that would look like, if the damage even manifested physically. What is plainly obvious and would take much more than a self-reported survey to disabuse me of, is the idea that excessive electronic usage screws up kids' brains, makin…

Why is it "plainly obvious"? You criticize a self reported study, but offer up a self reported second hand anecdotal claim as the only alternative, without even stopping for a moment to consider other potential reasons, such as e.g. whether the causal link may go the other direction, or whether kids who get to have more screen time have less involved parents.

I don't know whether this study is right. What I do know is that my observation of the people who insist it is not in this thread suggests I can't trust their reasoning about what they claim to have observed, because it fairly consistently involves illogical leaps and unsuported assumptions of causality.

Re: No evidence screen time is negative for child cognitive development, well-being

#114

Post by Fire-Dragon-DoL »

usgroup wrote: post #49
rickdeckard wrote: post #39

Does this factor in the impact of constant instant-gratification of whatever is done on that screen? Because (subjectively) I can see how children with lots of screen-time have a harder time with activities which do not lead to immediate dopamine release, like reading, listening to a story, drawing, etc., while children with low/no screen-time can derive satisfaction already from the process of doing something. -- Ed…

Children and everyone else … I can’t watch a movie anymore without either reading something or playing chess at the same time just to up the frequency of those hits.

I don't think this is a problem with you, rather with the content. I'm more likely to not do anything else when I rewatch a movie I like then when I watch a new tv show that's average.

Some shows are just super slow or full of unnecessary stuff and they try to sell those portions as "art"

Re: No evidence screen time is negative for child cognitive development, well-being

#115

Post by seec »

zer00eyz wrote: post #72
usgroup wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Children and everyone else … I can’t watch a movie anymore without either reading something or playing chess at the same time just to up the frequency of those hits.

As someone who doesn't abuse the phone, and mostly works on a computer I have this same issue. It is rare for me to be able to enjoy a movie. Im of the opinion that the quality of content is hot garbage on a good day and actual entertainment is rare now.

Yeah, I think that's pretty much it. We now have way more content to choose from but the problem now is to be able to select what is worthwhile. They call it attention economy and that's pretty much why. You have limited attention, if you use it on some random crap, you can't use it for something better (that you didn't notice or wasn't as easily accessible).

A friend of mine gets pissed off when I fall asleep in front of half the movies, he asks me to watch, but the reality is that those movies are bargain bin low quality comedies (or worse, documentaries) and its better use of my time to sleep than bother with it. It's actually one of my sleeping strategies, to empty my brain of thoughts, so...

I don't think there is a major problem with attention, neither in children or adults; it's just that it's a lot harder to sort through what is worth your attention and after some willpower is spent to choose something it doesn't get overthrown because of the psychology of commitment. But it is not worth paying attention, so people use whatever is around them to not completely waste time.

In my opinion inattentive children in classrooms has a lot more to do with teachers being bad and lack of physical activities than a problem with the kids. But teachers are politically untouchable nowadays and you can't ask them to actually be competitive or get fired. The pay is also progressive and equal regardless of actual performance, so you get terrible people who cannot keep kids' attention because they suck; but then we blame the kids. Sure.

Re: No evidence screen time is negative for child cognitive development, well-being

#116

Post by Fire-Dragon-DoL »

nevinera wrote: post #108
cheeseomlit wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When it comes to social science and studies involving self reporting I don't give it the same weight as I would to a study where all the variables are quantifiable and controlled And in this case the quantifiable, non-self-reported part is the MRI brain scans they're doing, but what does that data indicate? I'm too ignorant of neuroscience to know. Are all changes in behavior and cognition detectable through an MRI s…

Oh I have no problem with doubting the study (I definitely doubt its conclusions myself, since I don't think "screen time" is a meaningfully monolithic concept to study in the first place, without even getting into the details of the methodology). But there are good ways to doubt and bad ways, and "this study is junk because my kids misbehave more when they watch TV" is far on the wrong end.

Interesting the concept if "misbehaving when watching tv". I have a clear memory that I would get a mild headache and feel bored if I watched too much tv, and when I look at my children I notice they are watching too much tv by how "active" their body becomes while in front of the tv, that's the signal boredom is kicking in and a good time to turn it off. Usually prevent things going worse.

The time it goes bad is when I need the full day for, as an example, pack for a long trip. In that case tv is a necessity, but the consequences are terrible

Re: No evidence screen time is negative for child cognitive development, well-being

#117

Post by walt74 »

1. Przybylski again. He continues to generalize from studies focussing on screentime that everything digital is harmless, including social media. I don't trust his work.

2. [Children's brains shaped by their time on tech devices, review shows](https://medicalxpress.com/news/2023-11-children-brains-tech-...) and [Does screen use really impact thinking skills? Recent analysis suggests it could](https://medicalxpress.com/news/2023-11-screen-impact-skills-...)

> The evidence review, published today in Early Education and Development, is an analysis of 33 studies which use neuroimaging technology to measure the impact of digital technology on the brains of children under the age of 12. In total, more than 30,000 participants are included.

> In particular, the research finds screen time leads to changes in the pre-frontal cortex of the brain, which is the base of executive functions such as working memory and the ability to plan or to respond flexibly to situations. It also finds impacts on the parietal lobe, which helps us to process touch, pressure, heat, cold, and pain; the temporal lobe, which is important for memory, hearing and language; and the occipital lobe, which helps us to interpret visual information.

> "It should be recognized by both educators and caregivers that children's cognitive development may be influenced by their digital experiences," says the study's corresponding author, Chair Professor Hui Li, from the Faculty of Education and Human Development Faculty of Education and Human Development, at The Education University of Hong Kong.

Re: No evidence screen time is negative for child cognitive development, well-being

#118

Post by nevinera »

sn9 wrote: post #111
nevinera wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When science doesn't match your personal observations, that doesn't make the science wrong. It also doesn't make your personal observations wrong - it usually (in my experience) means that you're measuring/observing different things (assuming you're reasonably intelligent, which I am doing). In this case, "cognitive development and well being" are complex concepts that probably do not map exactly (or maybe even gross…

No this study is actually garbage. What it considers screen time is way too broad to be useful. People aren't worried about screens in general, but social media in particular as well as other smartphone applications that are engineered to keep you engaged. See Johnathan Haidt's literature review here for what an actually critical reading of the literature would lead you to reasonably conclude: https://jonathanhaidt.s…

I don't disagree with you a bit! Science should be doubted in the correct ways, and for appropriate reasons, that's one of the main things I come to HN comments for. My issue with the OP was with his reasons - anecdotes about your children and personal opinions about the world might _trigger_ doubts, but they aren't good reasons to base those doubts on.

Re: No evidence screen time is negative for child cognitive development, well-being

#119

Post by sn9 »

nevinera wrote: post #118
sn9 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No this study is actually garbage. What it considers screen time is way too broad to be useful. People aren't worried about screens in general, but social media in particular as well as other smartphone applications that are engineered to keep you engaged. See Johnathan Haidt's literature review here for what an actually critical reading of the literature would lead you to reasonably conclude: https://jonathanhaidt.s…

I don't disagree with you a bit! Science should be doubted in the correct ways, and for appropriate reasons, that's one of the main things I come to HN comments for. My issue with the OP was with his reasons - anecdotes about your children and personal opinions about the world might _trigger_ doubts, but they aren't good reasons to base those doubts on.

I've certainly been guilty of similar acts of pedantry so you'll hear no criticism from me on that front!
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