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Titled Tuesday Cheating

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Re: Titled Tuesday Cheating

#91

Post by paulddraper »

umvi wrote: post #88
paulddraper wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the point of becoming a champion runner in a world of automobiles? Any novice can beat you when in a car. --- EDIT: With all due respect, your comments sounds exactly that silly.

It would be more like "what's the point of becoming a champion runner if a theoretical drug existed that made anyone instantly into a champion runner and was very difficult to detect?"

Yes, except that cheating is not that rampant.

Maybe for Title Tuesday IDK, but not for most competitive chess.

Re: Titled Tuesday Cheating

#93

Post by importantbrian »

umvi wrote: post #26

Controversial opinion, but what is the point of becoming a pro chess player in a world of computers? Any novice can beat you when assisted by an engine. The same can't be said of other professions. A novice can't design a better bridge than a civil engineer just by using cots software.

When AGI finally comes around are you going to just stop doing anything? After all, what's the point when a machine can do it better?

Re: Titled Tuesday Cheating

#94

Post by nilslindemann »

trollied wrote: post #3

Hikaru talking about the cheating allegation against him: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zm2R--_fBj0 I'll add that he live streamed the tournament he was accused of cheating in. If you've ever watched how fast he moves and quite often pre-moves & talks through his strategy as he goes, it'd be very surprising to see that he cheated (and I don't even know how he'd go about doing so - he's faster than the engines!).

Kramnik has always intentionally trolled. This is how he compensates his frustration when he loses.

The weird thing is, Kramnik actually cheated himself, when he became world champion. He accepted a match for the title with Kasparov, though he lost the match for the challenger against Shirov.

This accusation against Hikaru is not funny anymore. Noobs in the Lichess chat start calling Hikaru a cheater. This is not ok. Being a cheater is a stigma in the chess community.

Kramnik should apologize, or get declared as a persona non grata for a while in the chess community.

Re: Titled Tuesday Cheating

#95

Post by thomasahle »

hibikir wrote: post #16
trollied wrote: post #3

Hikaru talking about the cheating allegation against him: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zm2R--_fBj0 I'll add that he live streamed the tournament he was accused of cheating in. If you've ever watched how fast he moves and quite often pre-moves & talks through his strategy as he goes, it'd be very surprising to see that he cheated (and I don't even know how he'd go about doing so - he's faster than the engines!).

I don't think he was cheating, if just because he was playing a series of players far, far lower than his standard level, and he proves that level in tournaments that have far superior anti-cheating requirements. However, could he be cheating, if he wanted to, in ways undetectable by the livestreaming? Absolutely! At the GM level, just having the evaluation visible somewhere is more than sufficient to gain 100 points…

> At the GM level, just having the evaluation visible somewhere is more than sufficient to gain 100 points of ELO.

I suspect it could be even more, but I wonder if anyone has tested this at different levels? It would be cool to have a graph that shows eval-bar at 1600 ELO equals 70 points, eval-bar at 2800 ELO equals 200 points, etc.

Re: Titled Tuesday Cheating

#96

Post by somenameforme »

umvi wrote: post #88
paulddraper wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the point of becoming a champion runner in a world of automobiles? Any novice can beat you when in a car. --- EDIT: With all due respect, your comments sounds exactly that silly.

It would be more like "what's the point of becoming a champion runner if a theoretical drug existed that made anyone instantly into a champion runner and was very difficult to detect?"

Cheating, except when done by an extremely strong player to begin with, tends to be utterly trivial to detect. For one reason among many more, a normal cheater will not really understand how difficult or easy some moves are and will tend to play a super-human move, requiring an exceptional depth of calculation, at the same pace which he plays a trivial recapture.

Cheating in chess is maybe something closer to steroids in athletics. If you take an average Joe and gear him up with all the steroids in the world, he's not suddenly going to just hulk out and become a world class athlete, contrary to what many think. But if you take a world class athlete and gear him up, he is going to be able to use that gain a substantial and unfair advantage over his clean peers.

Re: Titled Tuesday Cheating

#97

Post by somenameforme »

umvi wrote: post #26

Controversial opinion, but what is the point of becoming a pro chess player in a world of computers? Any novice can beat you when assisted by an engine. The same can't be said of other professions. A novice can't design a better bridge than a civil engineer just by using cots software.

In 50-60 years from now you'll almost certainly be dead, if you're unfortunate it might be much earlier. And along the way everybody and everything you've ever known will also die. Literally nothing anybody does has any grand point or meaning.

All life comes down to is fulfillment. And chess, for many, is one of the most absurdly fulfilling and satisfying things that there is. And what makes the game so special is that as you become better at it, it becomes even more fulfilling and satisfying. And there's no real limit to how much you can improve. And the cost of it is practically $0. And so all a pro is, is somebody who takes their fulfillment of the game to an arguably natural extreme.

Re: Titled Tuesday Cheating

#98

Post by mensetmanusman »

mda wrote: post #18
trollied wrote: post #3

Hikaru talking about the cheating allegation against him: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zm2R--_fBj0 I'll add that he live streamed the tournament he was accused of cheating in. If you've ever watched how fast he moves and quite often pre-moves & talks through his strategy as he goes, it'd be very surprising to see that he cheated (and I don't even know how he'd go about doing so - he's faster than the engines!).

He is not faster than engines.

He is if you normalize to 70W of power utilization, which is what more than what the brain uses :)

Re: Titled Tuesday Cheating

#99

Post by aoeusnth1 »

mda wrote: post #18
trollied wrote: post #3

Hikaru talking about the cheating allegation against him: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zm2R--_fBj0 I'll add that he live streamed the tournament he was accused of cheating in. If you've ever watched how fast he moves and quite often pre-moves & talks through his strategy as he goes, it'd be very surprising to see that he cheated (and I don't even know how he'd go about doing so - he's faster than the engines!).

He is not faster than engines.

he is sometimes faster than engines. Engines are stronger than humans at slow time controls, but there are multiple GMs that can beat Stockfish at ultrabullet due to low depth.
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