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Titled Tuesday Cheating

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Re: Titled Tuesday Cheating

#81

Post by what-the-grump »

trollied wrote: post #3

Hikaru talking about the cheating allegation against him: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zm2R--_fBj0 I'll add that he live streamed the tournament he was accused of cheating in. If you've ever watched how fast he moves and quite often pre-moves & talks through his strategy as he goes, it'd be very surprising to see that he cheated (and I don't even know how he'd go about doing so - he's faster than the engines!).

Do I think he cheats? No.

Do I think it's possible to cheat at his level, it would be an art to cheat in rapid and not get in trouble at the rate he plays. But sure, I'll bite, why not.

You can see that Hikaru has the ability to calculate and anticipate standard play far above his opponents, he calls out their moves before they make them. He clearly calculates both, he calculates the human line for him and his opponents.

You can also see the tilt in chess vs say LoL in almost real time. You can begin to spot fatigue in an hour-long video, multi-hour stretch, you can see Hikaru get tried and change the way he plays, slow down, go for positions that are easier to play because he knows himself very well.

Hikaru taking 2900s to town on chess.com simply looks like he is playing above the field at that pace. In a real tournament, with 90+ minutes, 2500-2600s give both Magnus and Hikaru trouble because there is so much more time to calculate. I think the reason why Hikaru is so strong, pattern recognition at this speed, instinct, and time spent playing, not strength necessarily in classical chess. (e.g. he has never been world champ)

Re: Titled Tuesday Cheating

#82

Post by jcalabro »

umvi wrote: post #26

Controversial opinion, but what is the point of becoming a pro chess player in a world of computers? Any novice can beat you when assisted by an engine. The same can't be said of other professions. A novice can't design a better bridge than a civil engineer just by using cots software.

Love of the game. Computers can make chess more interesting, not less! I love working with them.

Re: Titled Tuesday Cheating

#83

Post by tzs »

umvi wrote: post #26

Controversial opinion, but what is the point of becoming a pro chess player in a world of computers? Any novice can beat you when assisted by an engine. The same can't be said of other professions. A novice can't design a better bridge than a civil engineer just by using cots software.

> A novice can't design a better bridge than a civil engineer just by using cots software

...although a novice can beat a civil engineer at bridge design games. :-)

See Real Civil Engineer's YouTube channel [1], where a real civil engineer plays various engineering and puzzle games, including a lot of Poly Bridge 2 and 3. In Poly Bridge after finishing a level he generally looks at the leaderboard to see how the people that beat him did. There's usually a bunch that used cheesy methods, but there are also often several where they actually just did a better design. Especially on levels where hydraulics are used to move parts of the bridge.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/@RealCivilEngineerGaming

Re: Titled Tuesday Cheating

#84

Post by TacticalCoder »

trollied wrote: post #3

Hikaru talking about the cheating allegation against him: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zm2R--_fBj0 I'll add that he live streamed the tournament he was accused of cheating in. If you've ever watched how fast he moves and quite often pre-moves & talks through his strategy as he goes, it'd be very surprising to see that he cheated (and I don't even know how he'd go about doing so - he's faster than the engines!).

> Hikaru talking about the cheating allegation against him: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zm2R--_fBj0

He seems very amused by the accusation in that video.

Regarding his video to me this sounds like if you were to ask Djokovic to play 46 tennis matches versus players ranked between 5 and 400 in the world, could he win 45 out of 46 matches and draw one game (not possible in tennis but hey)?

I mean: Djokovic literally won 41 matches in a row, including several matches against opponent from the top 5.

From the opponents' list, it looks like there was no Magnus Carlsen and not any top 5 players in the world?

Is it that surprising that a world champion crushes competition like that?

I don't know but I'm not that suprised.

P.S: I'm making a tennis analogy because Hikaru likes and plays tennis

Re: Titled Tuesday Cheating

#85

Post by 4death4 »

lupire wrote: post #62
soegaard wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your analysis. > That can be setup trivially somewhere out of view. And that's the reason headphones are banned in tournaments. It's a problem for streamers though, since they need headphones to avoid audio feedback.

What audio feedback? Do chess streamers need audio from the computer?

They're likely capturing their screen with sound. If they allow the audio output of the game to be captured by the microphone, then the game sounds will play twice. Chess doesn't have very many sounds, but it does have some, e.g. when a piece moves.

Re: Titled Tuesday Cheating

#86

Post by tzs »

tester756 wrote: post #54
paulsutter wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Status-seeking is the reason folks focus on professional running, or professional chess, or any of these very hardcore, very difficult endeavors that have no practical purpose. Someone once commented that men make extraordinary efforts to impress women, yet in general have very little understanding of what women actually like. This explains jacked-up trucks, professional chess, professional running, etc EDIT: I'm tal…

>Someone once commented that men make extraordinary efforts to impress women You are seriously suggesting that people go pro in X/Y/Z mostly because they want to impress girls? Oo

It is pretty well known that all civilization was just an effort to impress the opposite sex (and sometimes the same sex), as explained in this educational film about the dangers of sex robots [1].

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrrADTN-dvg

Re: Titled Tuesday Cheating

#87

Post by rgoulter »

paulddraper wrote: post #60
wufufufu wrote: post #12

Doesn’t make much sense for Hikaru to cheat. He competes over the board where it’s much harder to cheat, and he makes most of his money through streaming, not through competition results.

But his appeal as a streamer is due to his strength. The stronger he is, the more his name is listed as the winner, the more viewers he has.

Wondering if Hikaru is using an engine is a bit like wondering if John Carmack gets his insights from ChatGPT.

Re: Titled Tuesday Cheating

#88

Post by umvi »

paulddraper wrote: post #65
umvi wrote: post #26

Controversial opinion, but what is the point of becoming a pro chess player in a world of computers? Any novice can beat you when assisted by an engine. The same can't be said of other professions. A novice can't design a better bridge than a civil engineer just by using cots software.

What's the point of becoming a champion runner in a world of automobiles? Any novice can beat you when in a car. --- EDIT: With all due respect, your comments sounds exactly that silly.

It would be more like "what's the point of becoming a champion runner if a theoretical drug existed that made anyone instantly into a champion runner and was very difficult to detect?"

Re: Titled Tuesday Cheating

#89

Post by p1necone »

TacticalCoder wrote: post #84
trollied wrote: post #3

Hikaru talking about the cheating allegation against him: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zm2R--_fBj0 I'll add that he live streamed the tournament he was accused of cheating in. If you've ever watched how fast he moves and quite often pre-moves & talks through his strategy as he goes, it'd be very surprising to see that he cheated (and I don't even know how he'd go about doing so - he's faster than the engines!).

> Hikaru talking about the cheating allegation against him: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zm2R--_fBj0 He seems very amused by the accusation in that video. Regarding his video to me this sounds like if you were to ask Djokovic to play 46 tennis matches versus players ranked between 5 and 400 in the world, could he win 45 out of 46 matches and draw one game (not possible in tennis but hey)? I mean: Djokovic literall…

> this sounds like if you were to ask Djokovic to play 46 tennis matches versus players ranked between 5 and 400 in the world, could he win 45 out of 46 matches and draw one game (not possible in tennis but hey)?

Not quite, it's more like watching Djokovic's match record until he gets a really good streak and then calling that particular run out as unlikely. It being specifically 46 matches is just because that's the particular length of data that Kramnik cherry picked to do his analysis on.

Re: Titled Tuesday Cheating

#90

Post by vichu »

ThomasCM wrote: post #10

Shameless plug: f you're looking for a similar way to compare your online rating with the FIDE rating, take a look at my project: https://www.chessmonitor.com/ Like the author, I also use regression, but extended to non-title players. More information: https://www.chessmonitor.com/blog/2023-elo-calculation

Where have I seen this UI before? :)
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