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PCSX2 Disables Wayland Support

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Re: PCSX2 Disables Wayland Support

#81

Post by kevingadd »

wtallis wrote: post #61
TillE wrote: post #31

Aside from bugs and driver issues, Wayland has some unfortunate design limitations. For example, Dear ImGui multi-viewports don't work because "Wayland doesn't let application read or write windows positions." https://github.com/ocornut/imgui/wiki/Multi-Viewports This is a feature available on Windows, macOS, and of course X11. Making choices like this means desktop Linux becomes even more of a weird island that nobo…

Why can't ImGui applications do multiple windows while leaving the positioning up to somebody else (the user or their window manager)?

How is the window manager going to handle the positioning in a scenario like multi-viewport? The user already conveyed their intent by dragging a window out of the application's viewport to create a new viewport, and Wayland is prohibiting the application from obeying the user.

Re: PCSX2 Disables Wayland Support

#82

Post by mort96 »

LtWorf wrote: post #62
k8svet wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, X11 "better", as long as you don't have high or mixed DPI screens, appreciate variable refresh rates, arbitrary scale factors, don't mind inconsistent tearing, aren't bothered by using a openly unmaintained, abandoned critical piece of desktop infra, etc. Otoh, if you're willing to buy a GPU from a vendor that doesn't snub Linux, or maybe god forbid change screenshot programs (doubt you even need to nowadays),…

I have never seen tearing on Xorg. I know in theory it might happen… but it's a non-issue since it doesn't happen.

You’re a very lucky guy. I have seen it in pretty much every X system I’ve used.

Re: PCSX2 Disables Wayland Support

#83

Post by Arnavion »

greyw wrote: post #77

Weston developers recently NACKd the window placement protocol ( https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland-protocols/-/m... ). I believe this one of the features pcsx2 wants to see merged. Hopefully, this doesn't mean weston developers can block essential protocols.

>Hopefully, this doesn't mean weston developers can block essential protocols.

Of course it means that. Weston developers are core developers of the Wayland protocol, as are developers of other compositors. Also, not only weston but wlroots also NACK'd it (for the same reason). If compositors refuse to implement a protocol then there's no point to merging such a protocol.

Also to be clear, it was blocked from being added to xdg- namespace, and was thus moved to ext- namespace where it can still be worked on.

Edit: See details in https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland-protocols/-/b...

Re: PCSX2 Disables Wayland Support

#84

Post by bryanlarsen »

Gigachad wrote: post #44
rowanG077 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Xwayland is instantly recognizable as shitty due to fractional scaling. Which almost everyone with a modern laptop uses.

I might not be up to date on this, but does fractional scaling work at all on Linux under any setup? Last I checked GTK just flat out didn't support it or something.

Works on KDE.

Re: PCSX2 Disables Wayland Support

#85

Post by wtallis »

kevingadd wrote: post #81
wtallis wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can't ImGui applications do multiple windows while leaving the positioning up to somebody else (the user or their window manager)?

How is the window manager going to handle the positioning in a scenario like multi-viewport? The user already conveyed their intent by dragging a window out of the application's viewport to create a new viewport, and Wayland is prohibiting the application from obeying the user.

I'm just trying to understand why ImGui needs to read and write window positions, because it's not immediately obvious from that paltry description. It sounds like you're describing a use case where it needs to be able to set the position of a new window relative to an existing window. So APIs to read the position of the current window and write the position of the new window are probably what they're looking for—though I can readily imagine narrower APIs to handle that use case. Does that sound to you like an accurate explanation of their complaint?

(None of the above explains why ImGui cannot in the interim accept a janky experience where newly created child windows pop up wherever the window manager puts them, as commonly happens for transient dialog boxes. This seems like a nice to have feature, but not a complete showstopper.)

Re: PCSX2 Disables Wayland Support

#86

Post by uneekname »

anaisbetts wrote: post #42

GNOME as a platform (and by extension, all of their associated projects which unfortunately includes the Wayland protocol) has such a bizarre worldview - it's like they think they can treat the Desktop OS, with all of its user expectations and existing working software, and remake it as a bigger iPadOS, to no one's actual benefit. What do I get in return for having to give up all of these things that used to work? It…

It's cool if GNOME doesn't work well for you, but for me it's near-perfect. For sure it's rough around the edges, but what isn't? GNOME helps me get work done, stays out of my way until I need it, etc.

I see so much general hate towards GNOME on HN, and it's really annoying. If it doesn't work for you, great, I'd like to hear why. But saying it's "strictly downsides" simply isn't true, nor productive.

Re: PCSX2 Disables Wayland Support

#87

Post by jahewson »

v1ne wrote: post #63

This discussion about monitor-aware positioning of windows relative to another is a real treasure trove: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland-protocols/-/m... One post summarizes it pretty well. Jehan says: > As GIMP maintainer, do you want me to open a separate report so that we explain our use case on multiple windows, as well as future planned use cases? I find it fascinating. There is this supposed succ…

I don’t know, deciding not to support multi-window mode seems ok to me. It’s a relic of the past and dragging around all that baggage often isn’t worth it.

Re: PCSX2 Disables Wayland Support

#88

Post by Arnavion »

keep_reading wrote: post #73
shmerl wrote: post #52

> NVIDIA just crashes in swap chain creation under Wayland I'd say ignore Nvidia, their Wayland support is junk (until nouveau+nvk catches up). It's not a Wayland problem, it's Nvidia problem. For dealing with CSD mess, there is libdecoration that SDL started using. In general - just use SDL for for DE integration, instead of trying to reinvent the wheel. Wayland is not broken. But if you are trying to reinvent the w…

He can't ignore NVIDIA, it's his job to make sure NVIDIA users can run his software by any means necessary.

"Ignore NVIDIA" in this context means "run it under X11 for NVIDIA", not "fail to run at all".

Re: PCSX2 Disables Wayland Support

#89

Post by rickstanley »

k8svet wrote: post #76
Zambyte wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's more interesting how Wayland has worked fine for me on AMD, Intel, and Nvidia for the last 4 years on my personal machines and work machines, and yet here we are still talking about if it works or not.

If you pay enough attention you'll start to notice the same users names across comments and threads. Hallmarked by ignoring any replies, repeating their pet peeve, repeating experiences from years ago as if they were recent re-tries, and ignoring the laundry list of features possible with Wayland that are impossible or declared as never happening with X11. I made the mistake, I clicked the thread, and even replied. M…

I too, have been using Wayland for quite some time.

I have some issues with it, but by no means they are deal-breaker, otherwise I'd have returned to Win10.

Most issues (that I've faced) are related to Hardware Acceleration, which, by my knowledge, is a common issue in Linux ecosystem; others are NVidia related, when playing games.

From my experience, overall: it's fine. (At least on KDE Plasma.)

Re: PCSX2 Disables Wayland Support

#90

Post by shmerl »

Arnavion wrote: post #88
keep_reading wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He can't ignore NVIDIA, it's his job to make sure NVIDIA users can run his software by any means necessary.

"Ignore NVIDIA" in this context means "run it under X11 for NVIDIA", not "fail to run at all".

Right, ignore it on Wayland because their drivers on Wayland are supported so poorly that's it's not worth wasting your time. It started getting a bit better lately, but it's still far from good.

I'd expect nouveau+nvk for it to catch up sooner than blob will become decent on Wayland.

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