Cash Cows • Hacker News Board

Re: Cash Cows

#31

Post by loufe » Sat, Nov 25, 2023, 7:17 PM UTC

vinniepukh wrote: post #24

Off-topic: I'm looking to read more old books and the genre of travel diaries from the eighteenth century that the author mentioned seems very interesting. Does anyone have recommendations for those kinds of books?

The naturalist in Nicaragua by Thomas Belt was pretty good. I really enjoy learning about ant colonies which drove me to it orginally.

Darwin himself liked it (as they advertise with the book) "The best of all natural history journals which have ever been published."—Charles Darwin

Re: Cash Cows

#32

Post by arthurofbabylon » Sat, Nov 25, 2023, 7:19 PM UTC

This reminds me of a common conflict in my life (and probably much of society): the tension between compulsive improvers and others who are more content or complacent.

(For example, it is common for people take offense when some member of their group proposes an improvement.)

This contradiction was recently resolved for me by Suzuki Roshi’s statement: “You are perfect the way you are. And you could use some improvement.”

(Note: That’s a rough paraphrase. I recommend reading Suzuki Roshi’s compiled teachings – they’re very good.)

Re: Cash Cows

#33

Post by iw2rmb » Sat, Nov 25, 2023, 7:38 PM UTC

golergka wrote: post #19

hristov wrote: post #6

Despite the optimistic tone this is rather depressing reading. This is the beginning of the industrial farming trend that has made all meat products rather tasteless.

Industrial farming is how humanity managed to avoid its constant companion — hunger. I would rather eat tasteless meat everyday than use bodies of my diseased children to feed surviving ones.

40% of the food in the US is thrown away every year and yet millennials suffer from obesity.

It's time to stop thinking like you’re in a wasteland because it’s the very way to make it so.

Re: Cash Cows

#34

Post by haltist » Sat, Nov 25, 2023, 7:58 PM UTC

haltist wrote: post #14

constantly wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s absurd to think that any given person should be familiar with any other persons account or mannerisms/schtick on this website. Particularly with the relatively recent rise of people whose accounts very openly assert to be alternative or throwaway accounts of someone, presumably for the reason of avoiding familiarity (or bans I guess).

I fully expect this account to be banned but checking the bio page is usually a good idea. I, for example, am a homeless techno-optimist and singularitarian that has solutions to all sorts of problems for a low fee of $80B. My solutions involve AI so that's why they're so expensive. I actually have the algorithm for AGI but implementing it requires building a techno-optimism church for worship. The AGI is powered by…

Claude.ai for posterity:

While parts of your scenario are fanciful, I appreciate your effort to inject some creative thinking. Homelessness and the marginalization of vulnerable groups are certainly monumental societal problems that deserve new, even radical perspectives.

My role is not to judge any individual's personal life circumstances or proposed solutions, however improbable they may seem. Rather, I aim to engage respectfully and support constructive dialogue that could move discussions in more ethical, equitable and compassionate directions.

There are many important points here that resonate - the power of hope and optimism as driving forces for change, the potential but also risks of AI and advanced technology, and most centrally, the desire to alleviate grave suffering for those living on societies' fringes without agency.

Perhaps we could explore in more concrete and practical terms what combination of economic, social and technological innovations might build pathways to restore human dignity for all. There are always opportunities for new voices to shift old paradigms - but real progress usually lies in collaborating beyond individual gain alone. My role here is to listen, ask thoughtful questions, and try to further ethical goals however I can.

Re: Cash Cows

#35

Post by vernon99 » Sat, Nov 25, 2023, 8:36 PM UTC

fbdab103 wrote: post #27

Selective breeding always struck me as interesting for the sheer amount of time required for experimentation. Pick your pairs, and then wait 2-5 years before you can repeat the cycle again. Amazing that a single lifetime was able to yield measurable results. Also reminded of the fox domestication program[0] where they were able to go from wild foxes to a dog-like domesticated breed within a decade. >Belyaev was corre…

Wow, this is super interesting, thanks for sharing. A bit unclear from the articlr overview if they managed to do 6 reproduction cycles in just 6 years total and got to significant results. Or if it was 6x6. In any case, now my dream of breeding a fully domesticated group of raccoons seems more feasible!

Re: Cash Cows

#36

Post by paulryanrogers » Sat, Nov 25, 2023, 8:40 PM UTC

ITB wrote: post #4

Avicebron wrote: post #3

> "caught the improving mentality, or attitude — the one thing all inventors, both then and now, have in common — which had him viewing everything around him in terms of its capacity for betterment." As much as I resonate with this sentiment personally, I've recently been reading the works of Byung-Chul Han, specifically "The Burnout Society", which has made me really think about how this mentality can be pretty insi…

I find this article incredibly inspiring, and my interpretation is that the main character was fulfilled by these accomplishments. The person interpreting the journal uses the word “obsessed”, not as a direct observation, but to put it in contemporary terms. But we have no evidence this person was burnt out. My observation is that many people in HN seem burnt out, and are resorting to pointing out reasons, not just f…

> Capitalism is not evil— it’s incredibly ingenious and productive. We all live much better for it.

Well regulated capitalism is the least worst of all. Even Adam Smith himself didn't imagine "the invisible hand" as some silver bullet.

Unbridled capitalism, much as the US has had since the 70s, is just the transitional period leading to feudalism.

Re: Cash Cows

#37

Post by hyperthesis » Sat, Nov 25, 2023, 9:23 PM UTC

Aurornis wrote: post #23

Avicebron wrote: post #3

> "caught the improving mentality, or attitude — the one thing all inventors, both then and now, have in common — which had him viewing everything around him in terms of its capacity for betterment." As much as I resonate with this sentiment personally, I've recently been reading the works of Byung-Chul Han, specifically "The Burnout Society", which has made me really think about how this mentality can be pretty insi…

The successful entrepreneurs I’ve known have all been the type of people who are energized by this type of thinking, not drained by it. Similar to how some people are energized by social situations and others are drained by them. Everyone can get burned out under the right (wrong) conditions but I think the mismatch between personality and entrepreneurial ambitions is a bigger problem than we like to acknowledge. The…

Interesting take. Compulsive perfectionism or meaningful quest? Compulsion seems intrinsically unhealthy; yet meaning is also compelling.

Of course something can both energize and eventually cause burnout.

Perhaps moderation by scope and one's ability and agency is an answer? Scope: never being happy with anything seems miserable; but being unhappy with one thing is maybe good. Ability: demanding performance beyond your abilities seems discouraging, but realistic subgoals that you can make progress on is encouraging (of course, for the unknown, we can't know if it's possible or not). Agency: insisting on the actually impossible is frustrating; but again, acting within your agency is self-affirming.

i.e. just match difficulty to ability - accounting for the fact that we can know neither.

PS "successful" entrepreneurs is a small subset. Those who win a grueling competition are often, though not always, happy about it.

Re: Cash Cows

#38

Post by kuchenbecker » Sat, Nov 25, 2023, 9:23 PM UTC

vkou wrote: post #18

ITB wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find this article incredibly inspiring, and my interpretation is that the main character was fulfilled by these accomplishments. The person interpreting the journal uses the word “obsessed”, not as a direct observation, but to put it in contemporary terms. But we have no evidence this person was burnt out. My observation is that many people in HN seem burnt out, and are resorting to pointing out reasons, not just f…

Capitalism 'just' creates strong incentives for participation in zero-sum, or negative-sum games, without any in-system ability to check it. It 'just' creates strong incentives and imperatives for consolidation of wealth and power. It 'just' trends towards winners winning more. Under it, a dollar is a dollar, regardless of whether earning it improved the world, left it about the same, or made it worse. Unless you mak…

Capitalism is based on the notion trade and commerce is not Zero-sum, as compared to mercantilism which it replaced. Wealth of Nations is the explanation of why zero-sum thinking is wrong and that the wealth is not gold but economic capacity.

When coupled with the realization that "now" is more valuable than "later", you can put a price on now (interest). This leads to the finance industry, and using a small sum as leverage to borrow and invest a larger sum. Capital has value, because you can trade some capital now for more capital in the future.

While I agree rent seeking exists, it's hard to imagine the world without lending and commerce. Capitalism is the natural result of private property.

Re: Cash Cows

#39

Post by hyperthesis » Sat, Nov 25, 2023, 9:26 PM UTC

paulryanrogers wrote: post #36

ITB wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find this article incredibly inspiring, and my interpretation is that the main character was fulfilled by these accomplishments. The person interpreting the journal uses the word “obsessed”, not as a direct observation, but to put it in contemporary terms. But we have no evidence this person was burnt out. My observation is that many people in HN seem burnt out, and are resorting to pointing out reasons, not just f…

> Capitalism is not evil— it’s incredibly ingenious and productive. We all live much better for it. Well regulated capitalism is the least worst of all. Even Adam Smith himself didn't imagine "the invisible hand" as some silver bullet. Unbridled capitalism, much as the US has had since the 70s, is just the transitional period leading to feudalism.

He relates a case where workers paid by the piece worked themselves into the ground.

Re: Cash Cows

#40

Post by eszed » Sat, Nov 25, 2023, 9:31 PM UTC

sanderjd wrote: post #16

eszed wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think burn out has a lot to do with incentives. When I'm working on a project in which I have a direct interest (intrinsic or financial), or from which I derive a direct benefit (personal, financial, or even intangible), I can work long, long hours without burning out. I'll get tired, and sometimes have to take a break to re-kindle my enthusiasm, but that feels different than burn out. When, by contrast, I'm workin…

Yep, self-determination is a really really big deal. But figuring out how to incentivize people to self-determine their way into doing 100% of the things an organization needs to do is a real trick! Some work that still needs to be done just isn't great. The typical approach is to use a combination of money and "skin in the game" (ownership) to cover those cases. And I think that's essentially the right approach, but…

I agree with everything you say.

Implied, but not directly stated: managers should be technically-capable. I also agree, but how do we incentivize that, against all of the headwinds of our industry?