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The $55M saga of a Netflix series nobody will ever see

nytimes.com

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Re: The $55M saga of a Netflix series nobody will ever see

#231

Post by c0pium »

afterburner wrote: post #164
bmelton wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that nobody wants to acquire Dune to be a critical success. It needs to be a commercial success. This of course implies the addition of much lazier exposition than The Wire, which IIRC never had more than about 4 million viewers. I'm sure it's different in the streaming era, but more and more, audiences are making it clear that they are definitely not tuning in to shows that require thought.

Eventually special effects will become so easy to do well that a cheaply produced Dune will capture all its facets. Although you'll still need a good writer to make it compelling.

If the source material was better it would be easier. The first book is ok but it’s all downhill from there, and fast.

Re: The $55M saga of a Netflix series nobody will ever see

#232

Post by c0pium »

safety1st wrote: post #225
WalterBright wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand all the love for Dune. I read it, it was ok, and that was it. 3 underwhelming film adaptations is more than enough. Special effects don't make a movie anymore. What matters is plot (and music). For example, "Colossus the Forbin Project" is very good. Some other very good scifi movies: . Invaders from Mars . Flash Gordon (1980) . Terminator . Star Wars IV . Alien

While Dune can certainly stand on its own as a great work, it's best appreciated as a critical response to the utopic techno-determinism of Asimov's Foundation series. The discourse between these two series contains some of the most interesting ideas ever penned in science fiction. I think you'd need to read at least the first three Foundation books and the first four Dune books to get a handle on it, but this is a g…

The main difference is that Foundation is great and Dune is mediocre.

Re: The $55M saga of a Netflix series nobody will ever see

#233

Post by c0pium »

kadoban wrote: post #113
WalterBright wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand all the love for Dune. I read it, it was ok, and that was it. 3 underwhelming film adaptations is more than enough. Special effects don't make a movie anymore. What matters is plot (and music). For example, "Colossus the Forbin Project" is very good. Some other very good scifi movies: . Invaders from Mars . Flash Gordon (1980) . Terminator . Star Wars IV . Alien

> I don't understand all the love for Dune. I read it, it was ok, and that was it. 3 underwhelming film adaptations is more than enough. It's the Count of Monte Cristo meets Star Wars, with great world building, pretty good plot and characters and a lot of interesting philosophy, sociology, strategy and tactics. What's not to love? The scifi miniseries was decent. The 1984 one was...barely Dune, though I enjoyed it.…

You should read the count of monte cristo, it’s in an entirely different league in terms of writing compared to Dune. The philosophy is transparent, the tactics and strategy are basically nonexistent, and the sociology is missing any kind of coherence.

Re: The $55M saga of a Netflix series nobody will ever see

#234

Post by c0pium »

hinkley wrote: post #215
WalterBright wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand all the love for Dune. I read it, it was ok, and that was it. 3 underwhelming film adaptations is more than enough. Special effects don't make a movie anymore. What matters is plot (and music). For example, "Colossus the Forbin Project" is very good. Some other very good scifi movies: . Invaders from Mars . Flash Gordon (1980) . Terminator . Star Wars IV . Alien

Have you tried to show Flash Gordon to anyone? It has not gone well for me. I think it's just our special little thing.

> It has not gone well for me

And here we find a rare ray of hope for humanity. People realizing that just because something is old doesn’t automatically make it a classic.

Re: The $55M saga of a Netflix series nobody will ever see

#236

Post by calgarymicro »

MichaelMoser123 wrote: post #174
neilv wrote: post #121

> Netflix executives grew so concerned with Mr. Rinsch’s behavior that they consulted with the Los Angeles Police Department’s threat management unit, a person with knowledge of the matter said. A Police Department psychologist reviewed Mr. Rinsch’s texts and emails and concluded that he didn’t seem like a threat to himself or others. Were executives concerned about possible risks to people, or were they trying to us…

There is more: > A correction was made on Nov. 22, 2023 : An earlier version of this article misstated the status of Carl Erik Rinsch’s series when Netflix bought the rights to it. There was a script, but it was not complete." 'is not complete' can mean many things. Also Netflix initially planned more than one season, but then they backtracked when the script was extending beyond the first season - there seems to be…

>Also Netflix initially planned more than one season

No they didn't. The article is pretty clear that they only greenlit one season. That 'locked for life' quote is saying that if Netflix decided to buy more seasons and/or spinoffs, Rinsch was guaranteed involvement, aka Netflix couldn't just fire and replace him (like NBC did to Dan Harmon on Community for example).

Re: The $55M saga of a Netflix series nobody will ever see

#237

Post by c0pium »

stevage wrote: post #175
WalterBright wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand all the love for Dune. I read it, it was ok, and that was it. 3 underwhelming film adaptations is more than enough. Special effects don't make a movie anymore. What matters is plot (and music). For example, "Colossus the Forbin Project" is very good. Some other very good scifi movies: . Invaders from Mars . Flash Gordon (1980) . Terminator . Star Wars IV . Alien

Strange choices. ESB is in almost every way a much better film than Star Wars. T2 much better than T1. Aliens better than Alien. I haven't seen the other two, bet I'll just assume they also have better sequels.

You have terrible taste.

Re: The $55M saga of a Netflix series nobody will ever see

#238

Post by WalterBright »

c0pium wrote: post #233
kadoban wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't understand all the love for Dune. I read it, it was ok, and that was it. 3 underwhelming film adaptations is more than enough. It's the Count of Monte Cristo meets Star Wars, with great world building, pretty good plot and characters and a lot of interesting philosophy, sociology, strategy and tactics. What's not to love? The scifi miniseries was decent. The 1984 one was...barely Dune, though I enjoyed it.…

You should read the count of monte cristo, it’s in an entirely different league in terms of writing compared to Dune. The philosophy is transparent, the tactics and strategy are basically nonexistent, and the sociology is missing any kind of coherence.

In your second sentence, which book are you referring to?

Re: The $55M saga of a Netflix series nobody will ever see

#239

Post by tsimionescu »

c0pium wrote: post #231
afterburner wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eventually special effects will become so easy to do well that a cheaply produced Dune will capture all its facets. Although you'll still need a good writer to make it compelling.

If the source material was better it would be easier. The first book is ok but it’s all downhill from there, and fast.

I would say the opposite. The first book is good, but pretty typical sci-fi fantasy fare. The next books are what really fleshes out a really interesting concept, this universe where humanity is far more advanced than today in a humanist way instead of technologically.

They also help make the point of the first book clear - that Paul wasn't a hero, but a tyrant. This is easily lost in the first book because of the comparison with the Harkonen and the previous Emperor, and because we're used to rooting for the main character. But Herbert's point wasn't to further the myth of the philosopher king, but to dismantle it - which is quite rare in fiction, and made extremely clear throughout the series.

I'd also say that the exploration of Leto II's psychology in the God Emperor of Dune was the most interesting writing in the series, so that's what I'd consider the pretty clear high point.

Re: The $55M saga of a Netflix series nobody will ever see

#240

Post by Zircom »

bmelton wrote: post #131
no_wizard wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO Dune needs to be a tv show that likely runs several seasons so all the world and backstory can be explored properly so the audience can get a full experience. Think The Wire in terms of plot discovery and forwarding (leaves out bogus exposition, means you have to pay attention to get things etc that moves along at a good pace and has forward development each episode. It would be expensive, but it’s the only way I…

The problem is that nobody wants to acquire Dune to be a critical success. It needs to be a commercial success. This of course implies the addition of much lazier exposition than The Wire, which IIRC never had more than about 4 million viewers. I'm sure it's different in the streaming era, but more and more, audiences are making it clear that they are definitely not tuning in to shows that require thought.

If anything streaming makes shows like The Wire more accessible and viable as commercial successes. It's hard to keep details in your head when the show airs an episode once a week, and if you're tuning in for the first time you've got no idea what's going on and find something else to watch. Neither of those issues he to exists with streaming, although more and more they're switching back to an episode a week model, but rewatching episodes in between weekly releases is an option now at least.
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