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The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess Decompilation

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Re: The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess Decompilation

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reverse engineering isn't copyright infringement. Distributing the reverse engineered source code is probably infringement however.

Reverse engineering without consent _is_ copyright infringement. As in order to obtain a copy of the software you likely signed an EULA which will likely have the standard anti-reverse engineering verbiage which you'll be violating, therefore you are copying (whether for your personal enjoyment or not) the works of the author without permission. There are a series of well documented exceptions... normally found in co…

[deleted]

Re: The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess Decompilation

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reverse engineering isn't copyright infringement. Distributing the reverse engineered source code is probably infringement however.

Reverse engineering without consent _is_ copyright infringement. As in order to obtain a copy of the software you likely signed an EULA which will likely have the standard anti-reverse engineering verbiage which you'll be violating, therefore you are copying (whether for your personal enjoyment or not) the works of the author without permission. There are a series of well documented exceptions... normally found in co…

There is no limitation in copying the work of an author for personal enjoyment without permission. If I use my neurons to read and create an exact copy I can retell to myself, or I write it on pen and paper, or I type it on a personal computer, or I read it out loud, or read it out loud and record it for myself I don’t violate anything. Otherwise one would never be able to play copyrighted sheet music on a digital piano say. Reverse engineering might violate other agreements but not copyright law.

Re: The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess Decompilation

#43
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it always the same on every thread of this type? Perhaps I can grab the code segments of a Windows ISO, apply a series of mechanical transformations, and proceed to call it Freedows and freely distribute it as my own? I am having trouble understanding the thought processes that lead to these conclusions. Too much ChatGPT? By this logic copyright protection on software would be meaningless. The GPL would be mea…

These decompilation projects are not using the distributed game binary to derive the code in their ports directly. It's just used as a rubric. The source code generated from this process is not Nintendo's. That's the idea, at least. Different from taking Windows ISO and jumbling it up into a rude goldberg machine and claiming it as a new work. Do consumers agree to a end user agreement that specifies they cannot deco…

> These decompilation projects are not using the distributed game binary to derive the code in their ports directly

That is the definition of decompilation. What are they using as input, if not the "distributed game binary"?

> The source code generated from this process is not Nintendo's.

This is just claiming the consequent. The output of my magical code transformation method is also not Microsoft's.

> Different from taking Windows ISO and jumbling it up into a rude goldberg machine and claiming it as a new work.

Yet that is exactly what decompilation is...

What distinction are you trying to make here? If I translate it to a different language, it is OK? That's as absurd as it gets and still basically strip all software from copyright.

> Do consumers agree to a end user agreement that specifies they cannot decompile the game?

For the record... yes.

Re: The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess Decompilation

#44
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reverse engineering without consent _is_ copyright infringement. As in order to obtain a copy of the software you likely signed an EULA which will likely have the standard anti-reverse engineering verbiage which you'll be violating, therefore you are copying (whether for your personal enjoyment or not) the works of the author without permission. There are a series of well documented exceptions... normally found in co…

There is no limitation in copying the work of an author for personal enjoyment without permission. If I use my neurons to read and create an exact copy I can retell to myself, or I write it on pen and paper, or I type it on a personal computer, or I read it out loud, or read it out loud and record it for myself I don’t violate anything. Otherwise one would never be able to play copyrighted sheet music on a digital pi…

> There is no limitation in copying the work of an author for personal enjoyment without permission.

Actually there is in many jurisdictions of the world, including mine (France). There are some exceptions enshrined in copyright law, for which we actually pay a tax.

But this is besides the point. It's not even about the personal copies you make from your legally-obtained original copy on the first place. It's about where you obtained that initial copy from. Most definitely not legally from the author, if he is not authorizing RE.

> Reverse engineering might violate other agreements but not copyright law.

What other agreements does it violate? It is copyright law the only thing that puts a restriction between you and doing whatever the fsck you want with that code. There is a reason the RE exceptions are enshrined in copyright law...

Re: The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess Decompilation

#45
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reverse engineering without consent _is_ copyright infringement. As in order to obtain a copy of the software you likely signed an EULA which will likely have the standard anti-reverse engineering verbiage which you'll be violating, therefore you are copying (whether for your personal enjoyment or not) the works of the author without permission. There are a series of well documented exceptions... normally found in co…

There is no limitation in copying the work of an author for personal enjoyment without permission. If I use my neurons to read and create an exact copy I can retell to myself, or I write it on pen and paper, or I type it on a personal computer, or I read it out loud, or read it out loud and record it for myself I don’t violate anything. Otherwise one would never be able to play copyrighted sheet music on a digital pi…

[deleted]

Re: The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess Decompilation

#46
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are fair use carveouts for reverse engineering code to, for example, make it usable on different platforms. I don’t believe this kind of decompile project has ever had its day in court and the laws are written in such a way that the outcome is at least somewhat likely to be skewed in favor of reverse engineering. Nintendo may be avoiding bringing suit because they don’t think they could win or that the judgemen…

It's even possible that Nintendo evaluates the harm of these projects to be rather lower compared to distributing the complete games themselves. Even though it's not based in any legal reality, the projects' firewall of "You must provide art assets from your own copy of the game" may suffice to keep the lawyers away. I know, Nintendo will litigate anyone for any reason, but it is possible for a company to look away w…

Yeah, seems most likely. In the past, they've explicitly taken down distributions of things like the SM64 PC port, but left the decompilation.

Companies don't have to C&D. If something poses very little financial danger, but taking it down presents significant risk of PR harm, it's not worth it. The C&D would cost more than it would save, so it makes no business sense.

Don't ask me why they even bothered taking down fan games, though. They seem to care a lot about art assets in particular.

Re: The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess Decompilation

#47
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it always the same on every thread of this type? Perhaps I can grab the code segments of a Windows ISO, apply a series of mechanical transformations, and proceed to call it Freedows and freely distribute it as my own? I am having trouble understanding the thought processes that lead to these conclusions. Too much ChatGPT? By this logic copyright protection on software would be meaningless. The GPL would be mea…

These decompilation projects are not using the distributed game binary to derive the code in their ports directly. It's just used as a rubric. The source code generated from this process is not Nintendo's. That's the idea, at least. Different from taking Windows ISO and jumbling it up into a rude goldberg machine and claiming it as a new work. Do consumers agree to a end user agreement that specifies they cannot deco…

They took the distributed game binary and ran it through a tool that produced an approximation of source code. At this point the decompiled code is clearly a mechanical transformation of the game binary, and so holds the same copyright status. This code is then cleaned up such that it compiles and functions and variables are given sensible names. This is, arguably, a creative endeavour, but it's also clearly a derivative work of the original binary and so is still controlled by copyright law.

The decompilation itself may or may not be a copyright violation - that's likely to vary depending on jurisdiction. If someone in a jurisdiction where it's legal were to write a description of the behaviour of the decompiled code and if someone else were to implement a codebase that happened to compile to the same original binary code then there's an argument that no infringement occurred (a functional description of the behaviour of a work is potentially not derivative of that work, and re-implementing the code based on that description is then not constrained by the original copyright), but that's not what happened here.

I don't like that this is the case, but let's take it to a logical conclusion - if I take an interpreted language with a bytecode compiler, I can typically decompile it to something almost 100% identical to the original code (I'd lose comments and maybe variable names, but that depends on the language). Does this mean I can take copyrighted Python code, run it through the interpreter, dump the state, decompile it, and have an independent work not subject to the original license?

Re: The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess Decompilation

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reverse engineering isn't copyright infringement. Distributing the reverse engineered source code is probably infringement however.

Reverse engineering without consent _is_ copyright infringement. As in order to obtain a copy of the software you likely signed an EULA which will likely have the standard anti-reverse engineering verbiage which you'll be violating, therefore you are copying (whether for your personal enjoyment or not) the works of the author without permission. There are a series of well documented exceptions... normally found in co…

You probably haven't signed anything if you bought the game on a physical medium.

Re: The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess Decompilation

#50
post #19
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that's a real legal defense. Code is just as subject to copyright as game assets (why wouldn't it be? it's just another kind of game asset), and the whole extracting assets thing making decompilations free from copyright infringement that gets bandied about is complete armchair lawyering. It's only by Nintendo's good graces these are still allowed to be hosted on GitHub.

> Code is just as subject to copyright as game assets The decompiled code is not the code that Nintendo wrote. This isn't the equivalent of steeling original code but more like generating a brand new code that would compile to the same executable.

Is a translation of a book not also protected under the original copyright? This is just a human readable form of the original binary.
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