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Flutter seems to be having bad times internally

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Re: Flutter seems to be having bad times internally

#41

Post by sgt »

rapsey wrote: post #28
wg0 wrote: post #18

Flutter has three major problems: - Performance: Even on Desktop, animations have jank. Last I compiled samples on Mac, the problem was visibly there. - UX: Text editing immediately feels alien. If Mac for example, you have a text field in a native app and on the side you have a flutter app with a text field, you can tell the difference between the "feel" when you type in each. This isn't necessarily limited to text…

Flutter is mainly a mobile framework. Electron owns the desktop, anyone using flutter on the web is crazy. While you're points are valid, they are kind of irrelevant.

There is a use case for Flutter Web and that is an extremely simple user interface such a form or a simple workflow, which can share code with e.g. a mobile app.

Other than that I agree - Flutter web is not going to be a good choice and that was never really the goal for them, I believe.

Re: Flutter seems to be having bad times internally

#42

Post by ffgjgf1 »

convexhulled wrote: post #37
59nadir wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was also very surprised at that line and I was wondering if I was the one who was out of touch or the Google team were. I haven't really looked into mobile development for a few years so it could very well be the case, but it stood out to me as unlikely considering the relative impopularity of Dart and the (to my estimation) very low hype profile of Flutter where developers hang out. But maybe they're right. I thin…

Tim was a director on Flutter until a few months ago and now works at Apple. That is, he has first hand knowledge of Flutter's numbers and now that he works for a competitor, no motivation to inflate Flutter's stats. Without getting into specifics (which I cannot share), Flutter is wildly successful in the market place and continues to grow YoY.

I guess it depends on how you measure popularity. If we’re counting new apps published on App/Play Store? Perhaps, even if still quite surprising . By user numbers? Completely unbelievable.

Re: Flutter seems to be having bad times internally

#43

Post by rapsey »

ffgjgf1 wrote: post #40
rapsey wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flutter is mainly a mobile framework. Electron owns the desktop, anyone using flutter on the web is crazy. While you're points are valid, they are kind of irrelevant.

Then it’s not bringing something particular new or useful to the table? Xamarin/mono already tried almost the same approach years ago and it clearly failed..

Did it fail because it is impossible, because of poor execution, poor dev experience or it was simply too early? Flutter seems to be quite popular.

Re: Flutter seems to be having bad times internally

#44

Post by sgt »

tarruda wrote: post #24

I like the idea of a single framework for all platforms and have always wanted to get into Flutter. Thee main barrier for me has been the Dart language, I wish it was written in a more popular language like Go.

Once you get into it, it becomes clear that Dart is actually pretty brilliant. There are lots of small little features in Dart that makes working with Flutter very productive (and even fun, I would argue).

Re: Flutter seems to be having bad times internally

#45

Post by rapsey »

rob74 wrote: post #39
rapsey wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flutter is mainly a mobile framework. Electron owns the desktop, anyone using flutter on the web is crazy. While you're points are valid, they are kind of irrelevant.

So then, if you want to have a really cross-platform app, ditching Flutter and using web tech for mobile too sounds like the better bet? Or, otherwise said: if Flutter is only relevant for apps, that's a pretty small niche.

> if Flutter is only relevant for apps, that's a pretty small niche.

No it is not. Mobile apps are thriving. It is desktop apps that are niche now.

> ditching Flutter and using web tech for mobile too sounds like the better bet?

Quite possibly yes.

Re: Flutter seems to be having bad times internally

#46

Post by rapsey »

sgt wrote: post #41
rapsey wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flutter is mainly a mobile framework. Electron owns the desktop, anyone using flutter on the web is crazy. While you're points are valid, they are kind of irrelevant.

There is a use case for Flutter Web and that is an extremely simple user interface such a form or a simple workflow, which can share code with e.g. a mobile app. Other than that I agree - Flutter web is not going to be a good choice and that was never really the goal for them, I believe.

Extremely simple user interface can be done in anything and code sharing is irrelevant for it though.

Re: Flutter seems to be having bad times internally

#47

Post by 59nadir »

convexhulled wrote: post #21
59nadir wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it is a response to that, you would have to assume that Hickson left because he pushed for or against something relating to working on Flutter. If Google wanted to place him elsewhere, for example, and he left Google because he figured he can bankroll his own work on Flutter and look elsewhere, that'd be in line with this line: > I hope that Google finally realizes what treasured assets they have here before it's…

Your comment couldn't be more off-base. Hickson left Google for his own personal reasons. Not because Flutter is losing resources or that he was asked/assigned to work on something else. Google has not lowered the amount resources dedicated to Flutter. Ian started the Flutter project and it's hard to point to someone more important to Flutter's success than him. He continues to work on Flutter as does the entire Flut…

Fair enough. What is the impetus for this long, whinging thread that has been linked to, then? If it's not about Google at the very least not showing any confidence in Flutter it seems fairly hyperbolic.

Re: Flutter seems to be having bad times internally

#48

Post by candiodari »

rob74 wrote: post #39
rapsey wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flutter is mainly a mobile framework. Electron owns the desktop, anyone using flutter on the web is crazy. While you're points are valid, they are kind of irrelevant.

So then, if you want to have a really cross-platform app, ditching Flutter and using web tech for mobile too sounds like the better bet? Or, otherwise said: if Flutter is only relevant for apps, that's a pretty small niche.

You know, this is a solved problem. Qt, for example, can easily do it (and has been able to do it for 10+ years, from microcontrollers to phones). And, just saying, QT is damn fast, a necessity if you want to work on microcontrollers of course. And yes, you can do it without royalties, without paying for QT, and in multiple languages (at least C++ and Python work pretty well).

(oh, and QT supports 3d, on the web, on android, on ios, and on desktop, even on microcontrollers if needed)

And yes, Javascript's advantage has been that it was cross-platform pretty early on. Not particularly fast though, not even decades later.

And everybody keeps pointing out the same shortcoming: these frameworks let you share a lot of code, but mostly not the actual "View" (the V in model/view/controller) code, due to screen sizes, whether the UI can be resized, extra functionality (e.g. statusbar/notifications/...)

That's why new frameworks come out, because "why can't notifications on Windows work the same as on android?". "Why not just share UI?". Unfortunately, there's very good reasons they cannot work the same ... So a couple years in, these frameworks develop the exact same problems.

Re: Flutter seems to be having bad times internally

#50

Post by threatofrain »

convexhulled wrote: post #21
59nadir wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it is a response to that, you would have to assume that Hickson left because he pushed for or against something relating to working on Flutter. If Google wanted to place him elsewhere, for example, and he left Google because he figured he can bankroll his own work on Flutter and look elsewhere, that'd be in line with this line: > I hope that Google finally realizes what treasured assets they have here before it's…

Your comment couldn't be more off-base. Hickson left Google for his own personal reasons. Not because Flutter is losing resources or that he was asked/assigned to work on something else. Google has not lowered the amount resources dedicated to Flutter. Ian started the Flutter project and it's hard to point to someone more important to Flutter's success than him. He continues to work on Flutter as does the entire Flut…

> Google has not lowered the amount resources dedicated to Flutter.

What about the recent layoffs from the Flutter & Dart teams?

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