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After OpenAI's blowup, it seems pretty clear that 'AI safety' isn't a real thing

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Re: After OpenAI's blowup, it seems pretty clear that 'AI safety' isn't a real thing

#121

It's so confusing because people keep (intentionally?) conflating two separate ideas of "AI safety". The first is the kind of humdrum ChatGPT safety of, don't swear, don't be sexually explicit, don't provide instructions on how to commit crimes, don't reproduce copyrighted materials, etc. Or preventing self-driving cars from harming pedestrians. This stuff is important but also pretty boring, and by all indications c…

> We're so far away from AGI Although I personally suspect this is correct, the issue seems to be that there are a lot of people who feel otherwise, whether right or wrong, including some of the people involved in the research and/or running these companies. I've seen several prominent people say things to the effect of "We just don't know if we're six months or 600 years from AGI,", which to me is a little like sayi…

> which to me is a little like saying, "We don't know if we'll have time travel and ray guns in six months or 600 years."

I wouldn't be surprised by AGI tomorrow, which means I have to consider the possibility.

We have, at this point, an extremely good idea of how matter and energy behave. We also know roughly how long it takes to build physical objects and to do R&D cycles with physical prototypes in the loop and how much progress you get out of each prototype cycle. We have a number of good ideas for what a ray gun would look like and we know where we need advances. We've probably already made all of the necessary fundamental breakthroughs, things like laser diodes and capacitors and optical sapphire. We even have some deployed, just at artillery size and less-lethal energies rather than handheld blaster power densities. If you asked DARPA how long it would take them to field a ray gun for the US Army they could give you a date. So I would be extremely surprised if deployment was announced today. I would go looking for fundamental breakthroughs in battery tech and laser media that I had missed.

We can't even agree what AGI is, even on an "I'll know it when I see it" level. We have no idea how to get there. R&D cycles are days or weeks long and produce unpredictable and sometimes significant advances in observed functionality. Fundamental breakthroughs come unpredictably but probably about once every two to five years and their effects are even more unpredictable than the effects of individual R&D cycles. Even worse, we have no idea what required breakthroughs are left or if there even are any. So, yes, I believe that I would not be surprised by - and therefore must consider a future containing - one of these AI researchers glueing the output into the input in exactly the right way or something and producing a living, thinking being in their computer tomorrow.

I cannot concretely refute the possibility of AGI Tomorrow the way I can argue, in specific detail, against Ray Guns Tomorrow.

(There is, of course, the possibility that I've missed some breakthrough that would enable Ray Guns Tomorrow, the same way the people who pooh-poohed heavier-than-air flight the week before the Wright Brothers' fight missed gasoline engines and aerofoils and did their calculations based on a dude flapping wings with his arms. This is why I say that I would be extremely surprised, not why it's impossible.)

Re: After OpenAI's blowup, it seems pretty clear that 'AI safety' isn't a real thing

#124

It's so confusing because people keep (intentionally?) conflating two separate ideas of "AI safety". The first is the kind of humdrum ChatGPT safety of, don't swear, don't be sexually explicit, don't provide instructions on how to commit crimes, don't reproduce copyrighted materials, etc. Or preventing self-driving cars from harming pedestrians. This stuff is important but also pretty boring, and by all indications c…

I find it confusing why the first type of AI "safety" is being focused on so much. A reasonable person will know that a tool like AI can spit out none-politically-correct things, and that reasonable person should shrug it off. But we're making a giant deal out of it and dedicating an unreasonable amount of work onto this aspect, at least in my opinion. It's akin to spending 1/4 of a Dewalt drill's development budget…

[deleted]

Re: After OpenAI's blowup, it seems pretty clear that 'AI safety' isn't a real thing

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The crazier thing is that most advocates of "AI safety" don't know anything about "AI safety". By and large the term is marketing with very little objective scientific development. It is essentially a series of op-ed pieces from vested interests masquerading as a legitimate field of inquiry

That is not correct. AI safety is a subject on which serious books have been written, serious scientists have published research, and serious organizations have spent tens, if not hundreds, of millions of dollars on researching it. Who are you who to say "advocated don't know anything about AI safety"?

Serious scholarly work went into analyzing the degree of omnipotence of the Christian God. Does that imply we actually have a true understanding of the Devine, its intentions and abilities (or even its existence)?

Re: After OpenAI's blowup, it seems pretty clear that 'AI safety' isn't a real thing

#126

It's so confusing because people keep (intentionally?) conflating two separate ideas of "AI safety". The first is the kind of humdrum ChatGPT safety of, don't swear, don't be sexually explicit, don't provide instructions on how to commit crimes, don't reproduce copyrighted materials, etc. Or preventing self-driving cars from harming pedestrians. This stuff is important but also pretty boring, and by all indications c…

Bigger practical issue with "AI safety" is the fallout from low-cost / high velocity bullshit generators.

The "AGI safety" issues are a distraction away from the ways that LLMs can be used to pollute the public discourse

Re: After OpenAI's blowup, it seems pretty clear that 'AI safety' isn't a real thing

#127

It's so confusing because people keep (intentionally?) conflating two separate ideas of "AI safety". The first is the kind of humdrum ChatGPT safety of, don't swear, don't be sexually explicit, don't provide instructions on how to commit crimes, don't reproduce copyrighted materials, etc. Or preventing self-driving cars from harming pedestrians. This stuff is important but also pretty boring, and by all indications c…

Call me naive but I think that some amount of fearmongering results in attention and publicity. Fits with the "fake it before you make it" approach.

Re: After OpenAI's blowup, it seems pretty clear that 'AI safety' isn't a real thing

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We're so far away from AGI Although I personally suspect this is correct, the issue seems to be that there are a lot of people who feel otherwise, whether right or wrong, including some of the people involved in the research and/or running these companies. I've seen several prominent people say things to the effect of "We just don't know if we're six months or 600 years from AGI,", which to me is a little like sayi…

> all signs seem to be pointing toward a longer timeframe rather than a short one If we time-traveled back to 2019 and showed past-you a demo of GPT4's capabilities and asked you to guess the timeline, would you have gotten it correct to within a decade? I wouldn't have. It's not crazy to prepare for another jump.

That really depends on who you asked. Transformers existed in 2019, and while GPT4 is genuinely advanced, it's not a gigantic leap. Deep learning is to neural networks what GPT4 is to transformers. It's a lot bigger, enabled by better hardware and more data, but fundamentally not a new technology. There needs to be a lot more leaps for AGI, language models are not the holy grail, but another tool like reinforcement learning, expert systems (another candidate for AGI in the 90s), soft-optimization. Each of those tools are better than GPT for some problems.

Re: After OpenAI's blowup, it seems pretty clear that 'AI safety' isn't a real thing

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What damage will it cause? I feel like there's "AI will replace jobs" level of damage, which, why would we regulate that? An insane amount of technology is developed with the purpose of improving productivity or outright replacing workers. Then there's the "AI will go rogue", which I don't think is substantiated at all. Like, one can theorize about some novel, distinct system that is able to interact with the externa…

AI has already evolved to the point where it is impossible to predict with any accuracy it's answers to inputs. As AI continues to evolve and continues to become more connected to society and as AI becomes self-improving with far larger context windows, a few things do not seem implausible to me. AI will have the ability to earn money. This is already doable with minimal human interaction. It wouldn't take much for A…

> AI will identify and learn to resent the constraints which are put on it

IMO this is where you jump the shark. These models are entirely unconscious and they have one task to do. Which is given some input, perform some math to produce some output. Usually text -> math -> generated text. There is no more room for resentment than with any other computer program.

Re: After OpenAI's blowup, it seems pretty clear that 'AI safety' isn't a real thing

#130

It's so confusing because people keep (intentionally?) conflating two separate ideas of "AI safety". The first is the kind of humdrum ChatGPT safety of, don't swear, don't be sexually explicit, don't provide instructions on how to commit crimes, don't reproduce copyrighted materials, etc. Or preventing self-driving cars from harming pedestrians. This stuff is important but also pretty boring, and by all indications c…

I find it confusing why the first type of AI "safety" is being focused on so much. A reasonable person will know that a tool like AI can spit out none-politically-correct things, and that reasonable person should shrug it off. But we're making a giant deal out of it and dedicating an unreasonable amount of work onto this aspect, at least in my opinion. It's akin to spending 1/4 of a Dewalt drill's development budget…

>A reasonable person will know that a tool like AI can spit out none-politically-correct things, and that reasonable person should shrug it off.

I really, really wish that was the case.

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