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Ask HN: I've spent $1M+ building a fitness app. Now what?

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11–20 of 54 posts

Re: Ask HN: I've spent $1M+ building a fitness app. Now what?

#11

All busieness and marketing advice aside, let me tell you the brutal truth from an average iPhone user, poor gym enthisiast and former b2c product manager perspective. Your app looks like a weak vitamin, not a pain killer. Looking at website, appstore screenshots and descriptions I got a relatively vague, generic and weak message "train smarter". - What's in it for me? - What exactly would I gain by wasting my time,…

This is 100% valid feedback, and I appreciate that you took the time to share it. I'm at that point, where I need some "brutal truth" to help me navigate the next few steps...

I definitely need to update the language on the site to be a lot more precise and clear about these questions you've raised.

> This is what b2c PMF is about - about the fit (the click) in user's head.

That's a great takeaway nugget: gotta make it "click" in the user's head that this is built just for them.

Re: Ask HN: I've spent $1M+ building a fitness app. Now what?

#12

All busieness and marketing advice aside, let me tell you the brutal truth from an average iPhone user, poor gym enthisiast and former b2c product manager perspective. Your app looks like a weak vitamin, not a pain killer. Looking at website, appstore screenshots and descriptions I got a relatively vague, generic and weak message "train smarter". - What's in it for me? - What exactly would I gain by wasting my time,…

What is the link?

Re: Ask HN: I've spent $1M+ building a fitness app. Now what?

#13

All busieness and marketing advice aside, let me tell you the brutal truth from an average iPhone user, poor gym enthisiast and former b2c product manager perspective. Your app looks like a weak vitamin, not a pain killer. Looking at website, appstore screenshots and descriptions I got a relatively vague, generic and weak message "train smarter". - What's in it for me? - What exactly would I gain by wasting my time,…

What is the link?

https://strongest.app

Re: Ask HN: I've spent $1M+ building a fitness app. Now what?

#14
This advice is about a million dollars too late, but... don't write a single line of code until you know who your audience is. Also, don't spend money on marketing until you know you have built the correct product.

At this point, all is not lost. But stop coding, start talking to people. Ask them what they do and do not like with what you have so far. Iterate and improve based on those conversations until people start giving you positive feedback, then and only then try to find more people to sign on. Once you have a decent initial audience who are all giving positive feedback... that is when you start marketing.

Re: Ask HN: I've spent $1M+ building a fitness app. Now what?

#15

This advice is about a million dollars too late, but... don't write a single line of code until you know who your audience is. Also, don't spend money on marketing until you know you have built the correct product. At this point, all is not lost. But stop coding, start talking to people. Ask them what they do and do not like with what you have so far. Iterate and improve based on those conversations until people star…

Wise words, and there are good takeaways for me here!

It's time to land this version of the product, freeze the code for a while (sans major bug fixes), and get some high fidelity 1:1s with (who I think) my audience is.

Thanks for taking the time to leave me this reply. I really do appreciate it!

Re: Ask HN: I've spent $1M+ building a fitness app. Now what?

#17

What is the break down of how that $1M was spent? No offense intended to you, but I'd have quoted $50K for the build out of the iOS app and the Watch companion app. Curious how you spent that money?

Over the course of a few years, I've easily spent more than $500k on the iOS + watchOS engineering alone. (Keep in mind that I started from a clean slate, there have been multiple iterations of UI/UX evolution, lots of iOS and 3rd party integrations to implement and troubleshoot, etc. (More on that below.)

To round out the figures, let's ballpark another $300-$350k on server + platform engineering, $80k on media + data + content acquisition, and then the inescapable overhead of the business itself (accounting, legal, etc.)

Contract rates I'm used to paying for solid iOS engineers have been anywhere in the range of $80-$120 per hour (big discrepancy based on where they're based and whether or not I'm working direct or through an agency), so $50k would have bought me about 10 weeks of sustained effort on the high end of that range. That's probably about where I was at when we finished the first working proof of concept with a designer + iOS developer.

Since then, for better or for worse, I can confidently say that I've spent more than another $50k just on "iOS debugging time". Probably more.

Lots of things to build out just in iOS land itself that can be more time consuming than they first seem for anyone who is interested:

- HealthKit integration - Location Services integration - WorkoutKit integration - WatchKit integration and implementing your own bidirectional comms between iOS and watchOS - Multiple AWS integrations (namely, Cognito and S3 but there are various Lambdas gluing things together and many, many more bits and pieces like CloudFront, Route53, etc.) - Custom in-app camera (and large file off loading to the cloud) - APNs - async I/O to/from our own server APIs

And more, those are just the easy ones to remember :)

It's been one hell of an adventure in iOS engineering land to say the least, and we haven't even begun to talk about things on the server side like data modeling. There's some really interesting stuff there as well, but that's for another thread ;)

Re: Ask HN: I've spent $1M+ building a fitness app. Now what?

#18

What is the break down of how that $1M was spent? No offense intended to you, but I'd have quoted $50K for the build out of the iOS app and the Watch companion app. Curious how you spent that money?

Over the course of a few years, I've easily spent more than $500k on the iOS + watchOS engineering alone. (Keep in mind that I started from a clean slate, there have been multiple iterations of UI/UX evolution, lots of iOS and 3rd party integrations to implement and troubleshoot, etc. (More on that below.) To round out the figures, let's ballpark another $300-$350k on server + platform engineering, $80k on media + da…

I appreciate the depthful reply. My quote was based on a cursory glance, I'm sure there is much more involved with a detailed spec sheet, as you pointed out.

Seems like you have the product figured out and just need to focus iterating on marketing. I'm actually in a similar position to you but having spent $400K instead of $1M.

I'd like to ask you, what were some factors that propelled you to self rationalize your method of going to market, that in hindsight turned out to be detrimental? Or in other words, what would you do if you were to go back in time and start over? Look, I know that's a painful question to answer since we can't turn back time, but I am asking it for the sake of educating others and for the potential benefits that stem from self reflection.

Appreciate your opening up on this. Thank you.

Re: Ask HN: I've spent $1M+ building a fitness app. Now what?

#19
As an unfit person who doesn't work out, I was considering getting the Mad Muscles app because I got a ton of ads for it and it seemed to fit me well. I haven't pulled the trigger yet, but if you're looking for users like me, I suggest taking ideas from them because at a glance your apps seem very similar and I found their sales pitch very good.

As a tech consultant who dreams of quitting to pursue my own app business venture, you've opened my eyes a bit to the kind of pain that awaits me. I think you went way overkill IMO, but you did it, which is what counts in the end.

Congrats on developing your app! I'll try it out sometime and give you more feedback.

Re: Ask HN: I've spent $1M+ building a fitness app. Now what?

#20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Over the course of a few years, I've easily spent more than $500k on the iOS + watchOS engineering alone. (Keep in mind that I started from a clean slate, there have been multiple iterations of UI/UX evolution, lots of iOS and 3rd party integrations to implement and troubleshoot, etc. (More on that below.) To round out the figures, let's ballpark another $300-$350k on server + platform engineering, $80k on media + da…

I appreciate the depthful reply. My quote was based on a cursory glance, I'm sure there is much more involved with a detailed spec sheet, as you pointed out. Seems like you have the product figured out and just need to focus iterating on marketing. I'm actually in a similar position to you but having spent $400K instead of $1M. I'd like to ask you, what were some factors that propelled you to self rationalize your me…

It's all good, and I'm genuinely enjoying these interactions here on HN. Literally nothing to lose and everything to gain from the dialogue, and I do help it's of some benefit to others :)

Part of how I have rationalized my journey so far is that I have been building an app that I myself use almost every day, I genuinely enjoy the building products and working with my team, progress has been steady along the way, and I have unwittingly over-indexed on my own judgments as an "efficient proxy to the market".

I know that might sound crazy, but it's a bit like, "We're making progress, but it's not quite ready, so let's just keep building. I know this is good! We got this!"

In terms of more specific reflections and lessons learned so far, here are a few initial thoughts if I could start over again, knowing what I know now:

- Co-Founder: I would not do this over again without a co-founder with passion and expertise in for B2C product marketing. (Even to this day, I've never really had good access to someone who has successfully bootstrapped and monetized a non-trivial digital product app from scratch.) In addition to the moral support and general collaboration, this skill set would be complementary to my own. It would had the potential to be a great counterbalance in the overall approach to GTM and product strategy.

- Financial Accountability: I'd create some semi-formal accountability structures with "gating functions" for how/when funds could be spent on the product along the way. Conceptually, before taking on another 3-6 months of committed product work, make more aggressive contact with reality through user interviews. Much of the product evolution has been pretty fluid, organic, and linear based on small inputs along the way.

- Proxy Users: I'd recruit a small group of users (compensating them a small stipend if needed) just to stay active on the app (e.g. you're going to be working out anyway, so do it with the app a couple of times a week) and provide regular feedback about what they see that they like and don't like, what's confusing, frustrating, etc. Probably too much of the UI/UX has been dialed in from my own experiences, and there are some interactions that can be reframed to be more obviously valuable based on the input of others

- Likelihood of Success: I'd question whether the scope/complexity of what I set out to do as a solo founder with limited funds can really be achieved. For example, how likely is it that I as a solo founder can bootstrap a B2C consumer-grade iPhone + Apple Watch to profitability? And in what is considered by many a "crowded space". (It wouldn't be wrong IMHO to characterize a certain district of the app store as a 'wasteland of fitness apps'.) Should I be trying to bootstrap something this complex in this space at all? Or decrease the scope? Or consider a different financing approach?

- Resist Perfectionism: It might not be obvious, but keep in mind that I've been thinking about GTM a LOT. I just haven't been doing GTM to the extent that it now seems obvious I should have been. I have somehow been rationalizing that I just need to "build more" to get the product "more ready" before I start leaning into a space and set of activities I don't particularly enjoy and am somewhat uncomfortable with. (And instead, I've been continuing to do the things I am good at and comfortable with.)

- Less Isolation: And even as I itemize all of these things, I can't look back and think of any specific moments were I ever thought I was making an egregious mistake on any given day. Every day, I made what seemed like reasonable/good decisions with the best information I had at the time. Being less isolated and more integrated into a community of practice to share progress might have made a difference

Probably lots of other things I could say (and let's not forget there are lots of other draws on my time in life with family, etc.), but those are some initial thoughts that I can share.

If anyone bothered to read all of this, I hope it's of some help!

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