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Before OpenAI, Sam Altman was fired from Y Combinator by his mentor

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Re: Before OpenAI, Sam Altman was fired from Y Combinator by his mentor

#271
post #30
post #9

I've had the 'chance' to work with some deeply manipulative persons in the past, the kind who goes to your desk and say 'Hey, I noticed you started to speak to X again, and your performance seems to suffer as a result", where X is a friendly colleague that opposed some plan of that person. It is incredibly difficult to keep those people in check as all that behaviour is off the record and impossible to prove. When pe…

This endorsement of Sam from 2011 is actually pretty damning, though it is so long ago if it were the only thing it wouldn't be a huge red flag: >I just saw Sam Altman speak at YCNYC and I was impressed. I have never actually met him or heard him speak before Monday, but one of his stories really stuck out and went something like this: > "We were trying to get a big client for weeks, and they said no and went with a…

I think that level of honesty isn't unusual in Silicon Valley.

Personally, if I were the prospective customer, I'd be angry at being lied to, and my message to my team would probably be that we'd be foolish to depend on this startup after they've shown from the start that they're dishonest.

If I were an established company, I think I'd also have our lawyers look at situation, to make sure the institutional knowledge was captured, and to see whether there's anything else we needed to do.

(For example of something else to do: though I'd treat things as confidential by default, in some future n-ary relationship/deal, is there a situation in which I'm obligated to mention to a third company that we previously had negative vetting info on the other company.)

But in the context of current startup culture, I don't think "fake (fraud) it till make it" is that unusual. And it's been normalized.

But I still don't want to do business with dishonest startup founders -- whether it's because they're naturally lying liars, or because they're surrounded by frequent dishonesty and they're not smart enough to cut through that.

Re: Before OpenAI, Sam Altman was fired from Y Combinator by his mentor

#272

I don’t have a strong opinion on the events of the past several days. But a lot of the behavior I’ve seen on twitter from Open AI employees, some led by Sam, feels very cult like: posting in all lower case, the heart emojis, rumors of employees calling each other in the middle of the night to pressure people to sign letters supporting Sam. There isn’t necessarily anything wrong of this behavior. It is good to like yo…

I think I'm out of the loop on tweet protocol...What's the significance of all lowercase?

Re: Before OpenAI, Sam Altman was fired from Y Combinator by his mentor

#273
post #232
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These people are at the top of the AI industry, they’d make bank in a ton of jobs if they left tomorrow. They weren’t getting equity at Microsoft yet they still chose that opportunity as an alternative. Clearly they care about working on the most interesting AI around instead of continuing to work under a CEO and board whose whole plan is to cripple AI development. Both the interim CEO Shear and likely coup leader To…

> These people are at the top of the AI industry, they’d make bank in a ton of jobs if they left tomorrow. I know a signatory of the letter and I can assure you that they were nowhere near the top of the AI industry six months ago.

But being at OpenAI, they now probably have the reputation of belonging to the top.

Re: Before OpenAI, Sam Altman was fired from Y Combinator by his mentor

#274
I predict his character arch will be similar to Adam Neumann and Travis Kalanick - first the media gushes over him and praises him as a genius. Then the media starts to question him. Then they start to fully dig in and dig up a ton of dirt.

With no mainstream outlet pushing forth the allegations his sister is claiming on social, I imagine right now they are looking under every rock on that end.

I respect his hustle but there is something about him in watching him speak live and in person that comes off as incredibly manipulative. He knows how to speak and pause in a way that gets the audience to laugh and gives soundbites. I am long OpenAI but I don’t trust Sam.

He could follow the character arch of his friend Thiel where the media come after him but he’s too resilient.

Or Zuckerberg where the media hated him for years and then moved on.

What do you think?

Re: Before OpenAI, Sam Altman was fired from Y Combinator by his mentor

#275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This website is YCombinator. Sam was with YCombinator

Did you read the article? Sam was fired by YCombinator.

But is this really a solid fact? PG did not comment on it and all the other sources are anonymous.

Re: Before OpenAI, Sam Altman was fired from Y Combinator by his mentor

#276
post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are topics where I'm interested in discussion but I don't think HN is mature enough to discuss them so the early comments are very thin ideology or discrimination so I just flag the article, even if it was good. I'm probably not alone in this.

That’s my point: yours is a weaker urge than the calls to take down Palestinian perspective as being terrorist sympathizing and antisemitic that come from that particular flag-brigade set (as one example), compared with diffuse concern over immaturity

"to take down Palestinian perspective"

I sometimes also do other things than reading HN, but what stood out to me, was that I read nothing about the conflict here at all and anything related to it was flagged. Likely because it would evolve into a flamewar after 3 comments.

Re: Before OpenAI, Sam Altman was fired from Y Combinator by his mentor

#277
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it hard to believe this was the kind of environment he was cultivating at OpenAI if 95% of the staff were ready to follow him out the door. I've worked for the type of people you mention and no one followed them when they leave. 95% threatening to leave in this case is hard to ignore.

I can believe the staff likes or even loves him, but the following him part was mostly because of money/shares and because they know he's influential and well connected to people with money. And peer pressure may have had a part in that letter signing. You don't want to be on the side of the losers if Altman gets his way.

The money vs. mission question was what I was trying to answer with this hypothetical polling: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38357485

(It seems obvious that hitching your wagon to Mr. Altman probably has a much better chance of making you rich, than does playing harps on a cloud at an altruistic non-profit. The question is what you actually want.)

Re: Before OpenAI, Sam Altman was fired from Y Combinator by his mentor

#278
post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Memetic thinking aside, Ilya signing that letter might have sealed it for them. Though, working for someone as formidable as sama in itself is a great pull, nevertheless.

> working for someone as formidable as sama His name is Sam Altman. And why is he so formidable?

> And why is he so formidable?

Commenting on an article that portrayed him as such?

> His name is Sam Altman.

Unsure what your point is; sama is his hn username.

Re: Before OpenAI, Sam Altman was fired from Y Combinator by his mentor

#279

It's oh so weird the article does not mention any of these though... - https://twitter.com/phuckfilosophy/status/163570439893983232... (SA's sister - also have a look at her recent posts) - Also: https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/QDczBduZorG4dxZiW/sam-altman... (utterly distressing) - https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1727096607752282485 (check the comment with snapshots of the letter - "strangely" that Gist was dele…

Is there any major news reporting on the Annie Altman stuff? That looks like front page material to me.

Re: Before OpenAI, Sam Altman was fired from Y Combinator by his mentor

#280

I don’t have a strong opinion on the events of the past several days. But a lot of the behavior I’ve seen on twitter from Open AI employees, some led by Sam, feels very cult like: posting in all lower case, the heart emojis, rumors of employees calling each other in the middle of the night to pressure people to sign letters supporting Sam. There isn’t necessarily anything wrong of this behavior. It is good to like yo…

I've talked to OpenAI recruiters. I personally don't like Sama from what I've heard/read, but I would still consider working there due to Ilya and Karpathy.

However, I absolutely would have been livid at the board and wanted Sama to come back if I was an employee, simply because I would have joined being aligned with the 'commercialize and make money' side, and not the other.

So I think a lot of OpenAI employees probably don't care if Sama is CEO vs someone else, as long as they get to ship and get paid. The board firing sam wasn't just a 'let's get a new CEO' it was a pivot from 'ship and make $$$'.

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