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Light Table - a new IDE concept

chris-granger.com

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Re: Light Table - a new IDE concept

#131

Post by johnwatson11218 »

One thing I notice while playing video games is that having an SSD doesn't help that much once the game is loaded. This is because game devs think about file access and make sure that it is optimized. It would be nice to just get something like eclipse that takes 5 minutes to become usable and slows down all the time because it is hitting the file system without any regard for performance.

Due to a jar locking problem I'm having to restart eclipse several times a day and it is so painful watching it "build" and validate all this code when my real build happens on the command line.

I wish video game developers would start writing IDEs for other reasons like graphics as well. They seem to be the only ones who understand flow and how disrupting it is for a program to just become unresponsive for even a few seconds.

Re: Light Table - a new IDE concept

#132

Post by drivebyacct2 »

There was a UX video a while back, quite a long video, and there were IDE features shown off that were slightly similar to this. You could trace code and modify it while it's running and visualize the results. I feel that it would have inspired or complement this concept very well.

Re: Light Table - a new IDE concept

#133

Post by splatcollision »

timdorr wrote: post #89
pragmatic wrote: post #73

Isn't it ironic that this is posted on a site that does startup funding and the comments are "please put this on kickstarter" not "please apply for Y Combinator"? Is it possible that Kickstarter will disrupt Y combinator style startup funding? If we (the consumers) can bypass the investors and pay for what we want, why do we need the startup gatekeepers? Obviously this wouldn't work for all startups but a large porti…

Kickstarter is for products, YC is for businesses. (More or less, I'm not saying it's black and white)

Ah, but business should be product-based...

Re: Light Table - a new IDE concept

#134

Post by grayrest »

gruseom wrote: post #67
jaxn wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Editing complex functions in a spreadsheet is an absolute nightmare though. AS long as he doesn't recreate that part we are good :)

Editing complex functions in a spreadsheet is an absolute nightmare Can you expand on why? Also, if you can imagine a spreadsheet that actually did a good job of this, what would it look like?

I think it'd look a lot like Resolver One:

http://www.resolversystems.com/products/resolver-one/

It's not necessarily clear but the spreadsheet UI generates an IronPython program and you can hack the Python if you so desire. I've only used it lightly a couple years ago but I still think it's neat.

Re: Light Table - a new IDE concept

#135

Post by arethuza »

Dove wrote: post #87
gruseom wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Editing complex functions in a spreadsheet is an absolute nightmare Can you expand on why? Also, if you can imagine a spreadsheet that actually did a good job of this, what would it look like?

I can think of a few reasons, though they may not be the ones he has in mind. There's the fact that you're dealing with cell references rather than variable names, so all of your expressions look like ($K4 - $S$1) rather than (principal - payment). There's the fact that the IDE you're working in is trash -- rather than a text file with carefully indented parenthetical statements, it's a single line text field. Sort o…

"There's the fact that you're dealing with cell references rather than variable names"

Excel has named ranges - allows you to give a meaningful name to single cell or a range of cells - a pretty widely used feature.

"it's a single line text field"

Excel's formula editor can be as large as you want.

Re: Light Table - a new IDE concept

#136

Post by numeromancer »

kijin wrote: post #68
benwerd wrote: post #8

I can't get my hands on this soon enough. It makes so much sense: we're moving away from the files and folders metaphor everywhere, so why not in the IDE too?

We might not want the hassle of dealing with files and folders all the time, but I sometimes worry that a new generation of "programmers" will emerge who have no understanding of how the underlying filesystem works.

How 'bout this: have a file system which can contain aggregating symbolic links, with configurable ordering schemes. We can edit functions in their own files and tell the compiler to compile the aggregation. This would be usable for C & C++ as well.

Re: Light Table - a new IDE concept

#137

Post by stcredzero »

gfodor wrote: post #52
stcredzero wrote: post #29

- Smallest unit of code is the function. - Able to get instant feedback on code changes. - Multiple editors with just one function in it. Show code in an "area of concern" not just in a file. - The coding environment can show also results, app windows, graphics, other tools. - Can save the configuration of the above. Smalltalkers have been doing this in commercial projects since the 80's. If only we could have commun…

Of course this comment was inevitable. If Smalltalkers really believe their environment is the right way to code, their attitude should not be one of "we did this first, meh" but instead be "here's what we did right, here's what we did wrong. heed the lessons of history and good luck, you are on a mission from God." I think with the proper care and nurturing, we could be at the beginning of a renaissance where many o…

If Smalltalkers really believe their environment is the right way to code, their attitude should not be one of "we did this first, meh"

That was totally not the spirit in which I meant my post. It's more like, "I told you so!" (My mind works differently, I guess. I present facts that challenge people's model of the world, hoping the curious absorb the information and run with it. Many people seem to take these as some kind of attack.)

Re: Light Table - a new IDE concept

#138

Post by snprbob86 »

Dove wrote: post #87
gruseom wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Editing complex functions in a spreadsheet is an absolute nightmare Can you expand on why? Also, if you can imagine a spreadsheet that actually did a good job of this, what would it look like?

I can think of a few reasons, though they may not be the ones he has in mind. There's the fact that you're dealing with cell references rather than variable names, so all of your expressions look like ($K4 - $S$1) rather than (principal - payment). There's the fact that the IDE you're working in is trash -- rather than a text file with carefully indented parenthetical statements, it's a single line text field. Sort o…

> There's the fact that you're dealing with cell references rather than variable names, so all of your expressions look like ($K4 - $S$1) rather than (principal - payment).

In Excel, use the "Name Manager" dialog and the "Name Box" on the formula bar. They re somewhat hidden, but discovery of them forever changed my spreadsheets!

Re: Light Table - a new IDE concept

#139

Post by gfodor »

stcredzero wrote: post #137
gfodor wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course this comment was inevitable. If Smalltalkers really believe their environment is the right way to code, their attitude should not be one of "we did this first, meh" but instead be "here's what we did right, here's what we did wrong. heed the lessons of history and good luck, you are on a mission from God." I think with the proper care and nurturing, we could be at the beginning of a renaissance where many o…

If Smalltalkers really believe their environment is the right way to code, their attitude should not be one of "we did this first, meh" That was totally not the spirit in which I meant my post. It's more like, "I told you so!" (My mind works differently, I guess. I present facts that challenge people's model of the world, hoping the curious absorb the information and run with it. Many people seem to take these as som…

Ah, understood. Tone threw me off and it's all too common to see the attitude I outlined above when old ideas are given fresh paint. Apologies for misrepresenting your view.
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