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Ubuntu squeezes more performance than Windows 11 on new AMD Zen 4 Threadripper

phoronix.com

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Re: Ubuntu squeezes more performance than Windows 11 on new AMD Zen 4 Threadripper

#61

I hope the community really gets behind Snap or Flatpak or one of the other systems for bringing a modern permissions and privileges system to the Linux desktop. It would help me be a lot more comfortable recommending Linux to non-technical people. What distro would you recommend to somebody like me who wants to be asked before an application gets access to my location, microphone, camera, network, etc...?

[deleted]

It's a well known fact that firefox startup time when packaged as snap is significantly worse. This should be less noticeable for actual use.

> On Firefox 119 I thought I was losing my mental faculties (even more) since I kept losing track of the cursor for a whole day. Turns out that it’s a Windows “feature” where you hide the cursor when you start typing into some input box. Maybe this is a Firefox-wide regression on Linux though. Difficult to find other examples of it on Linux via Google.

Firefox hides the cursor while typing, but it should unhide as soon as it's moved (at least it does for me)

> - More fun than a problem: `firefox --version` spews a warning: `update.go:85: cannot change mount namespace according to change mount ...` > - My dear XCompose wasn’t respected because of course you have to copy it to inside some dang `/home/me/snap/common/utensils/computer-applicances/apps/Firefox` tree

Those should both be snap specific.

> - The keyboard just does not work sometimes. No other apps seem to have this problem. So it’s apparently not some idiotic “applications that use X work but under Wayland it doesn’t” (or vice versa). Does a restart help? No. Seemingly only a computer reboot.

I don't know about that one. Could be Ubuntu or snap, but it does not happen on Arch. Out of curiosity, are you running firefox through xwayland or native wayland? (It says so on the about:support page under "Window Protocol")

Re: Ubuntu squeezes more performance than Windows 11 on new AMD Zen 4 Threadripper

#62
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i really dislike this line of reasoning. Windows has a much larger installed base so finding support and solutions are pretty easy. Whether that is a video, a blog or a forum, you can always find someone with the same problem. No, windows nagging you to register is not in the same ballpark as your audio not working or your video resolution changing with multiple monitors. No, windows updates adding or removing featur…

So serious. I find the linux community indeed very resourceful. And the ones for windows, after you have clicked thousands of banners away, that tell you the workaround for avoiding the registering after a long text of nothing, i find them resourceful too. My point was, that it is always difficult to enter a new domain. So it is a shared pain.

My limited point here is that linux has a lot of problems that are showstoppers. You sometimes cannot do what you want to do.

The average person cares about about usability first. Visually, linux is excellent and very useable. The problem is, should things go wrong, the level of technical skill needed to use community resources is relatively high.

Re: Ubuntu squeezes more performance than Windows 11 on new AMD Zen 4 Threadripper

#63
post #9
post #7

Win11 its such a dumpster fire they had to stop selling Win10 licenses to force people to upgrade. Add to that porting copilot to Win10 because there aren't enough Win11 users around.

We’ve heard this for every version of Windows for the past twenty years or more. When XP was new, there were people refusing to upgrade from Win2000 to “Fischer-Price Windows”. Well, all versions except Vista — everybody seemed happy to upgrade to Windows 7. (Of course the lesson Microsoft drew from that smooth upgrade was to blow up everything for the next version. “They want tablet interactions, they just don’t kno…

O no. I absolutely agree with the GP. I was fine with every windows after and including XP. Until I received a company laptop with win 11. I have a big fat list of things that are super annoying or bugs.

Re: Ubuntu squeezes more performance than Windows 11 on new AMD Zen 4 Threadripper

#64

I've been playing around with Ubuntu training myself for the day that I have to give up windows 10. My only complaints are that Linux can be tedious, everything is just 43 commands away; it requires greater understanding of not just what the system is doing, but how it is doing it; and the documentation is written like a Wikipedia article on advanced nuclear theory. Windows and OSX have, for the most part, just worke…

> My only complaints are that Linux can be tedious, everything is just 43 commands away

Perhaps your training was done with chatgpt or some other procedural text generator because that hasn't been the case for quite a while now. Some people should stick with poorly engineered operating systems such as Windows, since stepping out of one's comfort zone is not for everyone. Some people _need_ to be told what to do and how to think in all aspects of life.

Re: Ubuntu squeezes more performance than Windows 11 on new AMD Zen 4 Threadripper

#65
post #3

Back in the day I used Linux for rendering my Blender animations because my tests had shown it was 10% faster than the same machine running Windows 10. With render times of more than 8 days this quickly paid off.

I noticed that AMD/Xilinx Vivado synthesis runs 20% faster on WSL2 than on Windows. After seeing such differences using it on plain Windows becomes unpleasant.

Re: Ubuntu squeezes more performance than Windows 11 on new AMD Zen 4 Threadripper

#66

I hope the community really gets behind Snap or Flatpak or one of the other systems for bringing a modern permissions and privileges system to the Linux desktop. It would help me be a lot more comfortable recommending Linux to non-technical people. What distro would you recommend to somebody like me who wants to be asked before an application gets access to my location, microphone, camera, network, etc...?

Snaps are a dumpster fire on Ubuntu. In particular Firefox.

Flatpak... I tried a dosbox flatpak and it was 3 gigs. Regular package? 3 megs.

I run Linux mint to avoid them as much as possible. All of the flatpaks pretend nobody has files somewhere other than the home directory, and softlinks don't work. Have a mdadm raid in /mnt? Can't see it.

So basic frequent use cases can't be supported by a "modern security and permission system". Then no thanks.

All communication of this with the developers of snap, for example, are dismissed with a high amount of condescension. Which is pretty typical with most things whenever you have to deal with security. They imposed the dogma, and you have to comply to it.

And the delay whenever the snap has to interact with the file system, there's like a 5 second delay every time it happens. When trying to access a SSD based file system. That is unacceptable

Look we do not have infinite Moore's law steppings, or gigahertz of serial speed coming down the pipeline. Moore's law is running out. We can't be adopting some system like a stealing light, 50% of the practical performance of the user interface. Hard disc drives are going to start to not get bigger. The technologies we use for increasing the size of hard disk now already reduce the reliability of the drive.

So snaps in their elk really are not something I look forward to. For now just run the distro's lake Linux mint which doesn't use them

Re: Ubuntu squeezes more performance than Windows 11 on new AMD Zen 4 Threadripper

#67

I've been playing around with Ubuntu training myself for the day that I have to give up windows 10. My only complaints are that Linux can be tedious, everything is just 43 commands away; it requires greater understanding of not just what the system is doing, but how it is doing it; and the documentation is written like a Wikipedia article on advanced nuclear theory. Windows and OSX have, for the most part, just worke…

I'm a Poweruser of Linux since the late 90s and I can tell you that if you're a Windows or Mac poweruser with zero Linux experience, you're not going to have a good time in Linux.

Linux has come amazingly far, but I still wouldn't recommend it for everyone.

It's all about context. You're a power user so you're going to want to do advanced things, which requires total immersion in a completely different ecosystem.

But my 80 year old father on the other hand, he just wants to edit documents, scan images, browse facebook and play solitaire. He can run Fedora Silverblue with no problems.

Re: Ubuntu squeezes more performance than Windows 11 on new AMD Zen 4 Threadripper

#68

I've been playing around with Ubuntu training myself for the day that I have to give up windows 10. My only complaints are that Linux can be tedious, everything is just 43 commands away; it requires greater understanding of not just what the system is doing, but how it is doing it; and the documentation is written like a Wikipedia article on advanced nuclear theory. Windows and OSX have, for the most part, just worke…

Most of your interaction with your computer is via the Desktop Environment. Which is Gnome in a default Ubuntu installation. If you're not particularly interested in exploring alternate operating system philosophies, I'd recommend looking into other Desktop Environments to use on Ubuntu. In particular, I'd recommend XFCE or Mate since they behave conventionally.

One thing to understand when moving from a proprietary to an open source OS is how much control you have over the system. Just about any part of it can be disabled or upgraded or swapped out for something different. If you learn where the seams are and how the different pieces work together, it gives you far greater control over your computer than any proprietary OS. If you expect everything to just work, you may be setting yourself up for disappointment.

Re: Ubuntu squeezes more performance than Windows 11 on new AMD Zen 4 Threadripper

#69

I've been playing around with Ubuntu training myself for the day that I have to give up windows 10. My only complaints are that Linux can be tedious, everything is just 43 commands away; it requires greater understanding of not just what the system is doing, but how it is doing it; and the documentation is written like a Wikipedia article on advanced nuclear theory. Windows and OSX have, for the most part, just worke…

As also stated by others you should start learning the basic concepts and no specific flavor/distro to understand how everything fits together. You sound like someone who could very well succeed in that, since you didn't give up yet :)

I can only recommend starting to read https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Installation_guide

Once I installed arch I never looked back. I heard good things of the rolling distros of Suse and Fedora as well, but arch feels more vanilla than the others to me.

If you have a lot of time and passion you could also have a run of linux from scratch. You do it once for the learning part and then choose a distro of your liking.

Re: Ubuntu squeezes more performance than Windows 11 on new AMD Zen 4 Threadripper

#70
If Microsoft backs off core Windows development, which it certainly seems like they are, this is what we'd expect to see... not a big bang where it suddenly stops working, but every year it'll just sort of fall a bit more behind Linux, until in 4 or 5 years the difference consensus will slowly just creep over to Windows being noticeably worse than Linux without any big bang switchover... and it'll sneak up on Microsoft as much as it sneaks up on everyone else.

To be honest, Linux as a desktop environment is already more usable than many people realize. People kept expecting a Big Bang where someone would put out The Release That Solves Everything, but what happened instead is that it just kept creeping up and creeping up. A similar thing happened to Linux gaming; Valve never put out a big Here's Linux For Games release, it just crept up and crept up to the point that it basically runs my entire library, and single-player gaming is now to the point that anything that doesn't run in Linux is the exception, not the rule.

And Microsoft's problem is that if they let this happen, they're going to be in a world of hurt when they decide to get in gear and fix it, because of their reverse compatibility support. Fixing all that up and trying to make everything go fast is going to be hard with all these systems interacting with each other. While we Linux users may piss and moan about systemd transitions or all the audio transitions, in the Linux world, as new subsystems come in, the old ones actually go away, and it isn't dragging anywhere near as much reverse compatibility baggage around. Helps that there aren't any project managers to demand Windows LDAP for COM Apartments Over Embraced And Extended USB to be jammed in to be supported 10 years later because one big client uses it and that mean the rest of us get to be running a WLCAEEUSB service on our computers for the next 15 years, causing occasional mysterious crashes when it spuriously grabs a USB device.

It seems to me Microsoft is in grave danger of walking itself into an MBA trap, where investement in Windows doesn't pay off this quarter so they don't, repeat for 15 or 20 quarters, and then waking up one day and realizing that one quarter at a time they threw away one of the most useful business positions in the history of the world.

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