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FBI director admits they rarely have probable cause for using NSA collections

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Re: FBI director admits they rarely have probable cause for using NSA collections

#81

Post by chrononaut »

jfengel wrote: post #64
quesera wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Settled" does not mean what you think it means. There are good arguments that recent jurisprudence is not even justified from an Originalist perspective. This is neither the time nor place, but your confidence is unfounded.

"Settled" means that it's never, ever going to change, because the composition of the court isn't going to change. At least not during my lifetime, and probably not yours. It doesn't matter whether it's "justified". The Constitution means what five people on the Court say it means. And if that comes from talking to James Madison on the ouija board, the rest of us have to live with it. In that sense, it's "settled". A…

> because the composition of the court isn't going to change. At least not during my lifetime, and probably not yours.

Why not? The age of the justices in order from oldest to youngest is 75, 73, 69, 68, 63, 58, 56, 53, 51.

Even if you're 60 or older you have a pretty good chance of seeing the composition change.

Re: FBI director admits they rarely have probable cause for using NSA collections

#82

Post by sargun »

giantg2 wrote: post #68
coldtea wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You really think in that case they'd be bound by the President's likes and dislikes? If the President or whatever court didn't let them out, there would be riots in the streets.

Nope, most successfully stopped attacks are secret. Nobody would even know.

Why would we keep them secret forever?

Re: FBI director admits they rarely have probable cause for using NSA collections

#84

Post by coldtea »

pauldenton wrote: post #65
coldtea wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps because "the press" means journalism in general any way you cut it and you need to be very disingenuous to say otherwise as the spirit of the terms is obvious. Whereas "well regulated militia" absolutely doesn't mean "random redneck with a gun fetish" - the spirit is also obvious here.

People say the second amendment was made in the era of muskets so obviously an automatic rifle isn't what the founders were talking about While the first amendment was made in the era of newspapers, so obviously the right to speech doesn't extend to Telegrams, Radio, TV, or Digital communication

Not sure what the relevance of the above is. As I already said, people who say either of those are making a bad disingenuous argument.

I'm not saying either of those though, and didn't in my comment you responded to. I said that people who say a "well regulated militia" is not the same as "random individual who likes guns" are making an argument exactly in the intended spirit of the constitution.

Nothing to do with a disingenuous argument about "gun technology then vs now" or "press means just printing presses or newspapers".

So, yeah, if those rednecks form a actual state-run or even citizen-run militia they could have their guns, nice modern guns, in the context of that militia and for the purposes of that militia (and with the proper precautions and rules like police or army has for its guns).

I don't see where the constitutional's expression, as written, allows them to just have whetever guns they like as private individuals, even less so guns for fun and entertainment.

I'd go one better: what some document from 4 centuries ago says, should have no absolute hold to what the law is in a country 4 centuries later. It was what they came up with at the time, to respond to the problems of the time, as they saw them in the viewpoints of the time. All of them are dead now, and the demographics and issues are absolutely not even close to being them same.

Re: FBI director admits they rarely have probable cause for using NSA collections

#85

Post by coldtea »

giantg2 wrote: post #68
coldtea wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You really think in that case they'd be bound by the President's likes and dislikes? If the President or whatever court didn't let them out, there would be riots in the streets.

Nope, most successfully stopped attacks are secret. Nobody would even know.

Are they? Sounds like a BS theory, promoted to make them sound secretly more competent than they are ("we're great and stop a lot of attacks, we just aren't telling you". Yeah, right).

The truth is that even a minor succesfully stopped attack they'd advertise till the end of time, to score political and press points.

Re: FBI director admits they rarely have probable cause for using NSA collections

#86

Post by coldtea »

denkmoon wrote: post #72
coldtea wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You really think in that case they'd be bound by the President's likes and dislikes? If the President or whatever court didn't let them out, there would be riots in the streets.

There are already riots in the street and it doesn't influence presidential decisions.

Those wont be the kind of riots they use to score political points from either side.

Re: FBI director admits they rarely have probable cause for using NSA collections

#87

Post by htss2013 »

skygazer wrote: post #74
quadcore wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is very calculated I think. If people let him get away with saying it, that's it, it's done, it's banalized, it's normal. That's a technique often used by toxic people. (Disclaimer: im no american)

Why do you have to disclaim that? It’s nothing to be ashamed of. I have friends that are also not American, and I’m even okay being seen with them in public. You can feel safe fully disclosing!

Why do you take it that way? I took saying "not American" to mean his perspective is from outside looking in, which is useful context.

Re: FBI director admits they rarely have probable cause for using NSA collections

#88

Post by skygazer »

htss2013 wrote: post #87
skygazer wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you have to disclaim that? It’s nothing to be ashamed of. I have friends that are also not American, and I’m even okay being seen with them in public. You can feel safe fully disclosing!

Why do you take it that way? I took saying "not American" to mean his perspective is from outside looking in, which is useful context.

Oh, I was perhaps unwisely playful: “disclaimer” (a denial or risk) and “full disclosure” (adding context) are different but occasionally confused.

Re: FBI director admits they rarely have probable cause for using NSA collections

#89

Post by kelnos »

jfengel wrote: post #64
quesera wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Settled" does not mean what you think it means. There are good arguments that recent jurisprudence is not even justified from an Originalist perspective. This is neither the time nor place, but your confidence is unfounded.

"Settled" means that it's never, ever going to change, because the composition of the court isn't going to change. At least not during my lifetime, and probably not yours. It doesn't matter whether it's "justified". The Constitution means what five people on the Court say it means. And if that comes from talking to James Madison on the ouija board, the rest of us have to live with it. In that sense, it's "settled". A…

That's... not what "settled" means.

Re: FBI director admits they rarely have probable cause for using NSA collections

#90

Post by squirrel6 »

datadrivenangel wrote: post #15

"A warrant requirement would amount to a de facto ban, because query applications either would not meet the legal standard to win court approval" I hope that we get that de facto ban. It would be good for society.

Agree. It shocks me that anyone would stand against this— there’s so much anti Patriot Act rhetoric, this is one of the only ways to make a step toward achieving justice in the situation
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