FBI director admits they rarely have probable cause for using NSA collections
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Re: FBI director admits they rarely have probable cause for using NSA collections
#2Brilliant. I particularly liked the first comment (Anonymous Coward):
> Wray meant:
> Of course, we have probable cause.
> We always have probable cause for everything we do–well, mostly anyway.
> Well, I mean, we could maybe get probable cause, but it’s too complicated and it takes too long.
> You see, by the time we find an excuse that might double for probable cause, so much time will have passed, that we will all have died of old age.
> And that’s assuming we can really find an excuse in the first place.
Re: FBI director admits they rarely have probable cause for using NSA collections
#3Yeah it was such a bizarre argument that highlights just how unconstitutional this is: "if we need a warrant to do this, we wouldn't be able to do it because we'd fail the probable cause part". That's not a good argument dude, that's an admission that this program is unconstitutional.
Re: FBI director admits they rarely have probable cause for using NSA collections
#4The acid test for this is, if its OK for the FBI to spy on you as a citizen, then cool, we need the right to spy on the FBI agent and his family members -- why does he get to spy on me and my family members when there is zero reason for them to do that? I don't have anything to hide, and neither should he, so its all kosher right?
Re: FBI director admits they rarely have probable cause for using NSA collections
#5The acid test for this is, if its OK for the FBI to spy on you as a citizen, then cool, we need the right to spy on the FBI agent and his family members -- why does he get to spy on me and my family members when there is zero reason for them to do that? I don't have anything to hide, and neither should he, so its all kosher right?
You should be able to do just about anything they claim is legal without needing probable cause or a warrant.
I don't know what America Chris Wray is from, but in my America, law officers should not get any special treatment when it comes to this. The same arguments that would constitute your actions as stalking should apply to the FBI, if they are engaging in the same set of behaviors while operating outside of any special judicial framework such as a warrant.
Re: FBI director admits they rarely have probable cause for using NSA collections
#6The acid test for this is, if its OK for the FBI to spy on you as a citizen, then cool, we need the right to spy on the FBI agent and his family members -- why does he get to spy on me and my family members when there is zero reason for them to do that? I don't have anything to hide, and neither should he, so its all kosher right?
National insecurity something something. You know. Some are more equal than others.
Re: FBI director admits they rarely have probable cause for using NSA collections
#7The acid test for this is, if its OK for the FBI to spy on you as a citizen, then cool, we need the right to spy on the FBI agent and his family members -- why does he get to spy on me and my family members when there is zero reason for them to do that? I don't have anything to hide, and neither should he, so its all kosher right?
You should be able to do just about anything they claim is legal without needing probable cause or a warrant. I don't know what America Chris Wray is from, but in my America, law officers should not get any special treatment when it comes to this. The same arguments that would constitute your actions as stalking should apply to the FBI, if they are engaging in the same set of behaviors while operating outside of any…
The single greatest problem we have in government today is the fact that over the years we have added more and more exclusions, exemptions, and privileges for "law enforcement"
Rules for thee but not for me is the height of government tyranny, and today that is at all levels of governance from something as simple as parking enforcement all the up to lethal force
No government agent should be exempt from the law, no government agent should have special rights.
Re: FBI director admits they rarely have probable cause for using NSA collections
#8FBI: See the problem we face is finding a needle in a haystack.
Morons in congress: Oh, we're really sorry to hear that, what should we do?
FBI: Give us more hay for the stack.
Re: FBI director admits they rarely have probable cause for using NSA collections
#9It's just so slow
Re: FBI director admits they rarely have probable cause for using NSA collections
#10On the subject of FBI/NSA/CIA insincerity, that makes me think of various post-9/11 debates often involving "ticking bomb" Hollywood scenarios.
I'd like to reiterate that any kind of "OMG there's no time we must stop the NYC WMD ASAP" scenario already has a special exception route: Just commit the necessary spying/theft/torture crime, and plan for a Presidential pardon after explaining the extraordinary circumstances that totally justified your action.
If they aren't willing to put their own skin in the game, then the situation cannot be as clearly dire as they claim.