Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

75% of Software Engineers Faced Retaliation Last Time They Reported Wrongdoing

engprax.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 159 posts

Re: 75% of Software Engineers Faced Retaliation Last Time They Reported Wrongdoing

#121

Post by Manuel_D »

SenAnder wrote: post #116
Manuel_D wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not exactly, as per your link: > ...an unjustified adverse impact on members of a protected class... Requiring doctors to have an MD is going to have a disparate impact on all sorts of factors, including protected classes. Likewise, an anonymized leetcode question isn't going to pass candidates uniformly across identities. But there's a pretty strong case that the use of such measures is justified. Prioritizing candi…

Notably, "justification" is an affirmative defense (they don't have to prove you were unjustified - you have to prove you were justified. Guilty until proven innocent, in other words), and in practice must meet a very high bar - e.g. Griggs v. Duke Power Co., that started all this, ruled that an IQ test for management positions is not justified. More recently, a test for teachers where Whites had a higher pass rate t…

A controversial ruling, especially given how prevalent exams are for employment: MD, JD for lawyers, heck even a bachelor's degree is a disparate impact. Notably, one of the lawyers who helped overturn Brown vs Board of Education (now a judge) ruled in favor of New York in a lower court: https://www.newyorker.com/news/annals-of-education/the-teach...

Re: 75% of Software Engineers Faced Retaliation Last Time They Reported Wrongdoing

#122

Post by _8j50 »

PradeetPatel wrote: post #93
_8j50 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's so bad, sometimes you face pre-emptive retaliation if you have a habit of speaking up lol. HR says that to avoid lawsuits. If you bring retaliation and bullying to HR, you will be fired but not right away so it won't look like retaliation but maybe after significant time has passed. The best place you can be in corporate america is unseen by middle management and have a good immediate boss who values you.

It still baffles me to think that some still believe that HR is on their side. Human resource is there to safeguard the company from regulatory, compliance, and legal challenges.

Yes, but what surprises me is that HR is not that smart usually like you are saying, they don't think out what is in the best interest of the company but rather usually just side with a middle manager's opinion, at least with big companies. With smaller companies, execs are more in touch with line managers and employees, they still look after the company period but at least it is not a wasteful kelptocracy.

Re: 75% of Software Engineers Faced Retaliation Last Time They Reported Wrongdoing

#123

Post by 1letterunixname »

Once upon a time, I raised concerns about rushed changes and weakening the security configuration of a private credit card processing network. It was Stanford University and I was summarily "forced to resign" for not immediately complying.

PS: My boss also embezzled office equipment for personal use.

Re: 75% of Software Engineers Faced Retaliation Last Time They Reported Wrongdoing

#124

Post by 1letterunixname »

DoesntMatter22 wrote: post #66

I know a girl at a Fortune 500 company (not a dev) who was in corporate sales. She went with a more experienced sales person (a guy) who took her and the client to Hooters. No joke. This is like 2019 so in full swing Me Too movement. When she reported it she was immediately put on a PIP for bad performance. Then she was really dressed down privately by her boss for bringing it up. She taped the convo (legal in her st…

The problem is the lawsuit payday only works once. Regardless about how horrible an employer is, it marks someone as perpetually radioactive from being hired anywhere else.

Re: 75% of Software Engineers Faced Retaliation Last Time They Reported Wrongdoing

#125

Post by 1letterunixname »

I was once peremptorily retaliated against for just being in the room with a director of what was a major cell phone manufacturer who muted a call periodically to make racist/non-native English speaking comments about remote new hires. Although I failed to say something and should've, my badge was deactivated the next day without a single word. There was a good deal of obnoxious arrogance at that particular shop, so it wasn't much of a loss.

Re: 75% of Software Engineers Faced Retaliation Last Time They Reported Wrongdoing

#126

Post by 1letterunixname »

einpoklum wrote: post #24

What's the definition of "wrongdoing" in the context of this article?... * Criminality? * Illegality? * Immorality (and according to whose standards)? * Misrepresentation/dishonesty? * Abuse?

Exactly. It's easy to wax rhetorical hypotheticals in news copy.

In the real world, there are better ways to handle different things. Some things need leading questions. Others with concern or prodding questions. Still other things can be joked about. Serious matters should be handled cautiously and perhaps with the input of others where appropriate. There are also some boundaries beyond which matters aren't someone's business to address.

Re: 75% of Software Engineers Faced Retaliation Last Time They Reported Wrongdoing

#128

Post by DoesntMatter22 »

1letterunixname wrote: post #124
DoesntMatter22 wrote: post #66

I know a girl at a Fortune 500 company (not a dev) who was in corporate sales. She went with a more experienced sales person (a guy) who took her and the client to Hooters. No joke. This is like 2019 so in full swing Me Too movement. When she reported it she was immediately put on a PIP for bad performance. Then she was really dressed down privately by her boss for bringing it up. She taped the convo (legal in her st…

The problem is the lawsuit payday only works once. Regardless about how horrible an employer is, it marks someone as perpetually radioactive from being hired anywhere else.

Not really. How would future employers know?

Part of their deal entailed the company would not say anything negative to any company looking to hire here in the future.

Even if you file a lawsuit against a company they aren't going to generally say "Well, they filed a lawsuit against us". They generally don't say anything disparaging unless you are dealing with a mom and pop type of company.

Re: 75% of Software Engineers Faced Retaliation Last Time They Reported Wrongdoing

#129

Post by danbolt »

zmgsabst wrote: post #102
hsavit1 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some engineers and part of the professional managerial class. Many (if not most) engineers are proletarians

Engineers are not part of the proletariat, at all. There are no working class engineers. However, many members of the bourgeoisie and petite bourgeoisie LARP as proletariat — particularly academics. https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/02/middle-class-income-in-major... .

I was under the impression that what defines the proletariat is someone whose income primarily comes from their labour, rather than capital. In this case, plenty of academics and engineers certainly qualify if they need to work to live.

I think the parent commenter is using the term in that context, rather than if they work a blue-collar job or if they’re middle class.

Re: 75% of Software Engineers Faced Retaliation Last Time They Reported Wrongdoing

#130

Post by isilofi »

ajb wrote: post #114
isilofi wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You report these things verbally in person, not on written media. I think this is dangerous. If push comes to shove, you will not have anything to defend yourself with, because of no documentation.

I'm not sure what scenario you have in mind, in which the thing they have been annoyed by would be useful as a defence.

If you have something to report, usually you are somehow involved. The company might then try to pin responsibility on you for doing the bad thing and trying to verbally blackmail them.
Post reply on HN