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Stuxnet worm reportedly planted by Iranian double agent using memory stick

arstechnica.com

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Re: Stuxnet worm reportedly planted by Iranian double agent using memory stick

#61

Post by kristopolous »

berntb wrote: post #57
wolf550e wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know anything about Lehi being "instrumental in the invasion of Iran in 1942". Do you have any more information on this? Saying that Israel engages in terrorism and is deeply rooted in terrorism based on actions of two small factions (Lehi was no more than a couple hundred people at its peak) from before the War of Independence which were then shut down by Ben Gurion and Haganah (e.g. the Altalena Affair) and…

>>Saying that Israel engages in terrorism and is deeply rooted in terrorism based on actions of two small factions [...] not allowed anywhere in government is... strange. You don't usually read much from hate propagandists? :-( An explanation: Facts don't matter, the important point is to throw garbage in the right direction -- the believers know they are true, because the jews/blacks/white/israelis/democrats/etc are…

dear lord ... all I was saying is that "Here is why people think this" not "you should think this" or even "I support this" other than for the fact that I want cultures to be more open (and that is all cultures ... really).

I was just trying to back up the idea that these aren't just hateful things concocted out of thin air because people are evil or something trivial and without context.

There's a history to all of this ... that's all I'm saying. Don't need to get offended by it.

Re: Stuxnet worm reportedly planted by Iranian double agent using memory stick

#62

Post by berntb »

kristopolous wrote: post #61
berntb wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Saying that Israel engages in terrorism and is deeply rooted in terrorism based on actions of two small factions [...] not allowed anywhere in government is... strange. You don't usually read much from hate propagandists? :-( An explanation: Facts don't matter, the important point is to throw garbage in the right direction -- the believers know they are true, because the jews/blacks/white/israelis/democrats/etc are…

dear lord ... all I was saying is that "Here is why people think this" not "you should think this" or even "I support this" other than for the fact that I want cultures to be more open (and that is all cultures ... really). I was just trying to back up the idea that these aren't just hateful things concocted out of thin air because people are evil or something trivial and without context. There's a history to all of…

>>all I was saying is that "Here is why people think this"

1. That would be more convincing if you could answer wolf550e's point that your argument was garb... less than coherent.

2. This is not your only comment with "logic" and "facts" in this discussion.

3. Do you yourself really think that logic and facts has nothing to do on HN?

[Edit: Clarity]

Re: Stuxnet worm reportedly planted by Iranian double agent using memory stick

#63

Post by andrewfelix »

micahgoulart wrote: post #9

One has to question the reason why this information was leaked now. My guess is that Israel or the US wants Iran to be paranoid about a secret agent within their nuclear facilities and go hunting for a mole. Imagine if Israel planted evidence on a prominent Iranian physicist? Good luck proving your innocence. The whole Stuxnet story would make for a great spy novel, that's for sure.

There's no subtlety to what Israel is doing. They aren't encouraging paranoia or planting evidence, they're literally killing the scientists involved. I don't care which side of the fence you sit on, assassinating scientists for a presumed 'greater good' is awful.

Re: Stuxnet worm reportedly planted by Iranian double agent using memory stick

#64

Post by nivertech »

kristopolous wrote: post #45
philwelch wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny that no one uses this logic to argue for wiping Ireland or South Africa "from the pages of history", isn't it?

South Africa had a nuclear program, apartheid, and a few interesting property laws. But then they had a regime change and the previous way of thinking have been wiped "from the pages of history"; npt signing in 1991, cwc in 95. SA split in two forming Namibia in 1990, the same year that the talks to end Apartheid started ... leading to the release of Mandela and the multi-racial 94 elections. Sure, in California Engl…

Why, according to you, combined state should have non-Jewish PM is beyond me, giving that PM elections are democratic and even today both Israelis and Jews are majority in the area of former Brittish mandate of Palestine, and even much stronger majority when you talking about de-facto Israeli-controlled land, which excludes Gaza.

I'm supporter of giving Israeli citizenship to all residents of Judea and Samaria (so called West Bank), at least to those who will accept it.

Israel is not a South Africa were minority controlled majority.

Unlike USA or Japan, we do not have discrimination of who can be elected as a PM, except of-course criminal charges.

All your complaints should be directed to Greeks who invented this stupid system called democracy.

Re: Stuxnet worm reportedly planted by Iranian double agent using memory stick

#65

Post by nivertech »

justsee wrote: post #26
loverobots wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, Iran's leaders have stated that they wish to wipe Israel off the map. At least Israel has a legitimate reason to what they are doing and then some.

No they haven't. That convenient mistranslation is widely reported because it suits the narrative of the major political powers [1]. They've essentially said the current political regime in Israel must / will disappear. However that sentiment is less useful if your aim is to portray the Iranian state as an aggressive, modern-day Nazi regime though. Anyway that aim (essentially portraying Iran as a country dedicated t…

The Jewish and Armenian members of Parlament are just puppets. Iranian regime only tolerate tiny minorities, because they do not represent any threat, while large minorities like Azeris and Kurds are forcefully iranized and denied any signs of cultural and ethnic autonomy.

Re: Stuxnet worm reportedly planted by Iranian double agent using memory stick

#66

Post by barrkel »

berntb wrote: post #60
barrkel wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think there is a rational alternative for Iran other than pursuing nuclear weapons? (I don't think there is.) Do you think there is a way of stopping Iran from gaining nuclear weapons? Short of a pre-emptive nuclear strike or an invasion, I don't think there is - and I don't believe either will be pursued. So what happens when you have to think what you seem to think is unthinkable? Iran will get nuclear arms.…

>>, I'm not arguing that it is right that Iran gets nuclear arms. Sorry, but you do sound like you have an agenda. You made a claim that the Iran junta won't be insane, I showed it is wrong by trivial historical examples. Now you make a different claim. [Edit: And ignored my other point.] Edit: If I should bother to answer the new point, about what will happen: Saudi Arabia Turkey and others will start high speed nuc…

What agenda do you think I have? That I want Iran to be nuclear armed? I do not; but I think the alternatives are worse (nuclear strikes on Iran, US invasion of Iran; I think a conventional strike on Iran would have a similar effect to the Israeli one on Iraq in 1981).

Please tell me what you think my agenda is before discussing anything further. It's a pretty serious accusation.

Re: Stuxnet worm reportedly planted by Iranian double agent using memory stick

#67

Post by tkahn6 »

andrewfelix wrote: post #63
micahgoulart wrote: post #9

One has to question the reason why this information was leaked now. My guess is that Israel or the US wants Iran to be paranoid about a secret agent within their nuclear facilities and go hunting for a mole. Imagine if Israel planted evidence on a prominent Iranian physicist? Good luck proving your innocence. The whole Stuxnet story would make for a great spy novel, that's for sure.

There's no subtlety to what Israel is doing. They aren't encouraging paranoia or planting evidence, they're literally killing the scientists involved. I don't care which side of the fence you sit on, assassinating scientists for a presumed 'greater good' is awful.

Here's your subtlety: http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=9010175602

> Wife of Assassinated Scientist: Annihilation of Israel "Mostafa's Ultimate Goal"

Re: Stuxnet worm reportedly planted by Iranian double agent using memory stick

#68

Post by justsee »

The_Fox wrote: post #38
justsee wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No they haven't. That convenient mistranslation is widely reported because it suits the narrative of the major political powers [1]. They've essentially said the current political regime in Israel must / will disappear. However that sentiment is less useful if your aim is to portray the Iranian state as an aggressive, modern-day Nazi regime though. Anyway that aim (essentially portraying Iran as a country dedicated t…

Your CounterPunch source seems to have quite an agenda. It goes on to claim that Iran has no nuclear weapons program at all- a claim that is not well supported by all the things we see Iran doing. Even if the article is correct, Ahmadinejad has said things like "this regime that is occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time" and "I have no doubt that the new movement taking place in our dear Palestine is a…

> Also: who cares if Iran has a Jewish population?

It's a simple fact to illustrate that Iran is not bent on destruction of the Jewish people. Cultivating that idea in the public mind is the aim of that mistranslation, because the false idea of a genocidal Iran garners more worldwide support for the Israeli Government.

> That doesn't mean Ahmadinejad isn't a threat to Israel.

The only people threatened in any serious way by the Iranian regime are the Iranian people themselves. The idea that Iran poses a threat to Israel or the West is merely the public story to garner support for any military action.

Iran is surrounded by the largest military super-power in history, and has a hostile and aggressive neighbour who is armed with a significant number of nuclear weapons. Iran's military posture is defensive, and all serious military analysis does not regard Iran as a threat. A politician talking things up for a domestic audience does not qualify as a serious threat, but it certainly helps feed into a narrative for Western audiences.

The nuclear ambitions of Iran are also clearly defensive. North Korea remains untouched where Iran's neighbour Iraq is completely overrun. Obtaining nuclear-power status delivers much more political leverage, but that's it. Iran's leaders know any move to aggression would quickly result in military annhilation by Israel / US.

Re: Stuxnet worm reportedly planted by Iranian double agent using memory stick

#69

Post by caf »

kai-zer wrote: post #17
morturus wrote: post #5

US itself and Israel engaged in sabotage of foreign countries development? you don't say...

Development of weapons-grade uranium for which the only purpose is for use in weapons of mass destruction... You make it sound like that is a bad thing.

Without wanting to downplay the seriousness of Iran's nuclear program, this is incorrect on two counts. Firstly, Iran has not enriched to weapons-grade - the highest levels it has gone to is just under 20%, which is still LEU (Low-Enriched Uranium).

Secondly, there are other uses for weapons-grade HEU other than weapons - for example, Brazil enriches to weapons-grade to produce fuel elements for its nuclear submarines (HEU is used in naval reactors so that they can be more compact). Iran doesn't have naval reactors, though.

Re: Stuxnet worm reportedly planted by Iranian double agent using memory stick

#70

Post by tkahn6 »

justsee wrote: post #68
The_Fox wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your CounterPunch source seems to have quite an agenda. It goes on to claim that Iran has no nuclear weapons program at all- a claim that is not well supported by all the things we see Iran doing. Even if the article is correct, Ahmadinejad has said things like "this regime that is occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time" and "I have no doubt that the new movement taking place in our dear Palestine is a…

> Also: who cares if Iran has a Jewish population? It's a simple fact to illustrate that Iran is not bent on destruction of the Jewish people. Cultivating that idea in the public mind is the aim of that mistranslation, because the false idea of a genocidal Iran garners more worldwide support for the Israeli Government. > That doesn't mean Ahmadinejad isn't a threat to Israel. The only people threatened in any serious…

> Iran's military posture is defensive

Iran has insurgents and clerics in Iraq actively attacking Sunni civilians and Saudi-backed militias and NATO soldiers. Iran sends weapons and money to Hamas in Gaza. Iran funds and sends weapons to Hezbollah, a paramilitary and political organization that has metastasized in Lebanon, accused of assassinating the Lebanese president. Iran sends weapons and money to Bashar Al-Assad in Syria.

Can you explain what is to be gained by pushing apologist rhetoric for the Iranian regime?

I'm genuinely curious to know what you personally gain or what is gained 'in the abstract' by sugar-coating Iran's international ambitions. There seems to be a certain faction within the left that is very bent on this mission and I'm hoping you can explain the rationale behind it.

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