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Kyle Vogt resigns from Cruise

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Re: Kyle Vogt resigns from Cruise

#151

Post by fragmede »

Rebuff5007 wrote: post #101
amacneil wrote: post #58

Since there is so much negativity in this thread, let me balance it with my take as someone who worked at Cruise for 5 years (left 3 years ago). Kyle is the smartest, most technically capable, driven person I have ever had the opportunity to work for. He had a deep technical understanding of the system, a great intuition for unnecessary complexity, and a constant desire to find and resolve engineering bottlenecks. An…

> But I hope they can maintain their Silicon Valley culture and not succumb to becoming a complete GM outpost. Silicon valley has not shipped a successful product in the space that Cruise is in, and its quite possible no company ever will, so maybe "succumbing" to a different culture could be a good thing.

I mean, people are riding Waymos, and were riding Cruises, so while it's not broadly available, it's also not the case that nothing has been shipped. Hell, comma.ai just launched the latest version of their hardware.

The future is here, just unevenly distributed.

Re: Kyle Vogt resigns from Cruise

#152

Post by TMWNN »

xnx wrote: post #72

2 prominent Google competitors really hurting from self inflicted wounds this week. OpenAI has good tech, but surprisingly disorganized management. Cruise was considered a Waymo competitor (despite having far inferior tech) may undergo some radical changes. Could Apple possibly acquire Cruise assets? Would Apple even want them? Reputational risk to Apple is huge.

>2 prominent Google competitors really hurting from self inflicted wounds this week

I've heard it said that Musk has had an even better week, for the reasons you mentioned plus the Starship launch.

Re: Kyle Vogt resigns from Cruise

#153

Post by TMWNN »

nojvek wrote: post #138

First Sam Altman, then Kyle Vogt. Is Elon Musk from Twitter/X next?

Even those afflicted with Musk Derangement Syndrome would have to consider Musk's ownership stakes in his companies. So, no.

To put another way, there is a better chance that Musk is the next OpenAI CEO.

Re: Kyle Vogt resigns from Cruise

#154

Post by sangnoir »

sroussey wrote: post #100
paul7986 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really loathed the tech bros attitude that Cruise came off I.e. trying to rapidly expand while their cars were totally not ready for prime time and showing such often in San Francisco. Trying to win the market at all costs like Uber tried which their irresponsible trying to kill it (win the market at all coss) behavior killed a pedestrian. I was afraid Cruise's similar behavior (noted many times here on HN) would pro…

You mean the victim that got hit by a human driver that sent her flying in the air. And that human fled the scene. Hit and run.

> You mean the victim that got hit by a human driver that sent her flying in the air. And that human fled the scene. Hit and run.

The limited framing rhetoric you're using here is exactly why Kyle had to quit. You - like Cruise - are choosing not to communicate the full story so that Cruise looks good.

Re: Kyle Vogt resigns from Cruise

#155

Post by sangnoir »

ohhnoodont wrote: post #149
modeless wrote: post #121

Cruise did exactly the wrong thing by folding under pressure and stopping all operations. Appeasing your critics simply doesn't work. The appeasement alienates your supporters while doing nothing to change the minds of your critics as is amply demonstrated in this thread and elsewhere. Cruise's cars were almost certainly not more dangerous than human driven cars. The CYA bureaucrats have taken over and there is no pl…

I like this take. The situation involving a women under a Cruise was initiated by a hit-and-run driver throwing her directly into the path of the Cruise. Given what I've seen in San Francisco, if it weren't a Cruise behind that car, there would have two hit-and-runs.

> if it weren't a Cruise behind that car, there would have two hit-and-runs.

As opposed to one hit-and-run followed up by a hit-and-drag-on-tarmac. If I were that poor woman, I know which I'd rather endure: I think a human driver would have the decency to back-up first.

Re: Kyle Vogt resigns from Cruise

#156

Post by oldgradstudent »

SR2Z wrote: post #144
oldgradstudent wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> most of these support events don't result in the remote operator doing _anything_ That's a utterly ridiculous statistic. If you need a human to monitor to prevent a bad result, it doesn't matter how often the human has to intervene. For example: With Tesla Autopilot, the driver doesn't have to do anything the vast majority of the time. Still, your life expectancy will be measured in days if you don't monitor it. Ev…

This is not "human monitor or the car crashes." This is "human monitor or the car might do a safe stop and block traffic." A human driver can easily get away with the latter, and often do. A self-driving car can't, because people hold them to higher standards.

> This is "human monitor or the car might do a safe stop and block traffic."

And they need all those people because their software cannot reliably handle it itself.

Otherwise they would not used so many people.

> A human driver can easily get away with the latter, and often do. A self-driving car can't, because people hold them to higher standards.

LOL. They've been blocking streets all over the place.

https://techcrunch.com/2022/06/30/cruise-robotaxis-blocked-t...

Re: Kyle Vogt resigns from Cruise

#157

Post by mcmcmc »

Exoristos wrote: post #93
mcmcmc wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’ll excuse the tinfoil hat, the OpenAI disagreement could very well stem from a dangerous accident or near miss covered up by Altman that we just haven’t learned about yet since the board didn’t publicly state how he deceived them. And that would be pretty analogous to the Cruise situation. Anyway Altman gives me the ick, serious lizard person vibes.

"OpenAI ... dangerous accident." Like what, giving a freshman wrong dates for the Garfield presidency?

Like giving instructions on how to mix mustard gas to a potential school shooter. Or a manual on how to kill yourself to a depressed teen. Or a blueprint for how to build a bomb to a domestic terrorist.

Re: Kyle Vogt resigns from Cruise

#158

Post by sroussey »

paul7986 wrote: post #103
sroussey wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean the victim that got hit by a human driver that sent her flying in the air. And that human fled the scene. Hit and run.

And then what happened after she was hit via a hit and run? She was hit and lodged underneath one of Cruises's robot cars on training wheels who unlike what a human would do (stop the car & help the other human being) ..it's algorithm (there's no way these robot cars can account for all the million human scenarios that a human can) executed dragging the woman to the side of the road further mangling her body.

And we know exactly who to blame. Unlike the human. And that human likely would have kept driving too. Clearly did not show the empathy that would suggest they would pull over.

As an aside, I wonder if all Waymo and Cruise vehicles will include undercar cameras in the future.

Re: Kyle Vogt resigns from Cruise

#159

Post by paul7986 »

sroussey wrote: post #158
paul7986 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then what happened after she was hit via a hit and run? She was hit and lodged underneath one of Cruises's robot cars on training wheels who unlike what a human would do (stop the car & help the other human being) ..it's algorithm (there's no way these robot cars can account for all the million human scenarios that a human can) executed dragging the woman to the side of the road further mangling her body.

And we know exactly who to blame. Unlike the human. And that human likely would have kept driving too. Clearly did not show the empathy that would suggest they would pull over. As an aside, I wonder if all Waymo and Cruise vehicles will include undercar cameras in the future.

if another human is lodged under millions of drivers' cars ..you are saying 99 percent of them are going to run them over and flee? There's that many murders out there?

Further you are saying what I detest about this dumb technology ..that being ..oh once we hurt someone or killed them we will have learned something from their death and push out a software update with each person we harm or kill. Thanks for sacrificing your life for technology progress and expanding tech bros wallets.

As for Waymo they need to be strung up too if it's found out they learned something from cruise's incident and made changes. Which scarily shows they are learning as they go and more people are going to be harmed or killed.

Love technology but love human beings more!

Re: Kyle Vogt resigns from Cruise

#160

Post by sroussey »

paul7986 wrote: post #159
sroussey wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And we know exactly who to blame. Unlike the human. And that human likely would have kept driving too. Clearly did not show the empathy that would suggest they would pull over. As an aside, I wonder if all Waymo and Cruise vehicles will include undercar cameras in the future.

if another human is lodged under millions of drivers' cars ..you are saying 99 percent of them are going to run them over and flee? There's that many murders out there? Further you are saying what I detest about this dumb technology ..that being ..oh once we hurt someone or killed them we will have learned something from their death and push out a software update with each person we harm or kill. Thanks for sacrifici…

If you don’t want death from cars, get rid of cars. Love humans more.

Two pedestrians were killed today in my home town, for example. Tens of thousands die because of cars every year, either inside them or outside them.

Automobiles are dangerous technology. Before they existed you could be in a carriage and tell the horse to go home while you passed out. Thanks to the automobile, you’ll be dead instead.

And there is no excuse of learning going on either. Just hop in cars and tens of thousands will die. Again and again and again.

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