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Financial situation of the Matrix.org Foundation

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Re: Financial situation of the Matrix.org Foundation

#61

Thanks for the tag on the GitHub issue and for being a persistent advocate for transparency. Transparency is something we should expect from any open source foundation, and I am committed to delivering on that as the Foundation's first Managing Director. That said, it is the weekend :-) I'm happy to address all of the concerns and questions, and you'll hear more from me tomorrow – both here and on GitHub.

I've published my official response over on GitHub, where I provide context and answer the specific questions the OP has asked: https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-spec/issues/571#issueco...

I'm copying the first part of my response here for y'all's convenience:

Hi @alohapersona, I’ve included answers to your specific questions below, but first I wanted to share some context.

You can expect the Matrix.org Foundation to grow and evolve like other open source foundations, in terms of incrementally staffing up, increasing transparency and community governance, and establishing programs that support the ecosystem.

There are a lot of great examples we can learn from, though the manner in which we are starting adds some complexity. It’s a lot cleaner to start with a small balance and some IP than to inherit massive pre-existing commitments like running the matrix.org homeserver. The added complexity also makes things more difficult, and it’s fair to say the path to now has reflected that difficulty level.

The Foundation hit a key milestone this year when it delivered on its promise to make its first hire. If you look at the landscape and the history, you’ll find that the first hire makes a radical difference in delivering on the kinds of things I see you’ve been seeking for the last four years.

Setting expectations

So, I’d like to set some expectations. The Foundation’s fiscal year, as you know by now, runs from November 1 to October 31, and it takes time to close the books. Especially when we’re still separating out our infrastructure and relying on people for whom the Foundation isn’t their first priority. After we close our books, two things happen: we send them off to the tax accountants, and I begin preparing our annual report. That annual report will cover revenue, expenses, and programmatic activity, all contextualized with our vision and where we are on the path to realizing our vision.

The timeline is a little fuzzy, but I’d expect that annual report to land around March or April.

And we should expect further maturation/normalization of process each successive year: when we seat our first elected Governing Board in 2024 Q2, I’ll finally have a board of community representatives to review and approve my budget! With that, we’ll start to see both a public budget before each financial year begins, and an annual report after it ends.

Getting involved

Ultimately, the project is to build this Foundation up into an independent, transparent, self-sustaining organization with community-driven governance at every layer. We will need continued mutual accountability to stay the course on the way to achieving that vision. To wit, I welcome call-ins and incisive questions, and also stress the need to be charitable with each other. This work is hard, it is painfully incremental, and it happens over the scale of years and decades.

I do not, however, welcome escalation to Hacker News with bad faith editorializing, which brings out the worst in people and leaves me wasting time confronting FUD rather than tending to forward-looking work that truly serves the community. Starting fires like that isn’t helpful.

For those who are invested in Matrix and want greater visibility into the Foundation’s activities, I invite you to join the Office of the Matrix.org Foundation room I launched last month. We have a lovely community of people there who provide input, offer accountability, and join together to celebrate even the small successes on our collective journey to organizational maturity and self-governance.

I hope this helps you and all those who read this to understand where we are, where we are going, why things are the way they are, and how to get involved.

With gratitude, Josh Simmons Managing Director of the Matrix.org Foundation

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Re: Financial situation of the Matrix.org Foundation

#62
post #25

Thanks for the tag on the GitHub issue and for being a persistent advocate for transparency. Transparency is something we should expect from any open source foundation, and I am committed to delivering on that as the Foundation's first Managing Director. That said, it is the weekend :-) I'm happy to address all of the concerns and questions, and you'll hear more from me tomorrow – both here and on GitHub.

I'm very curious to see this point addressed: > According to the statement, the book value of cryptocurrency assets did not change between Oct 31, 2021 and Oct 31, 2022. This is questionable, to say it mild, given that there have been incoming cryptocurrency transactions publicly visible on the respective published blockchain addresses of The Matrix.org Foundation. https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-spec/issues/571…

Yeah, that was surely an error. The value most definitely would have changed.

Re: Financial situation of the Matrix.org Foundation

#63
post #5

I assume they're paying for a service, probably developing Matrix? I would rather have them use the small amount of money they have on developing Matrix rather than explaining where each coin went. This comment seems relevant: https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-spec/issues/571#issueco...

The Foundation has a Master Services Agreement (MSA) with Element which includes administrative services (accounting, legal, etc), operation of the matrix.org homeserver, and secondment of several personnel whose responsibilities include advocacy, program management, standards work, and trust and safety. The MSA also includes provisions for the Foundation to reimburse Element for any bills they pay on our behalf.

For the most part, the Foundation hasn't directed much funding to active development as other folks in the ecosystem have been doing that ably. That isn't to say we don't fund development though – most recently we've been investing in developing open source trust and safety tools.

Re: Financial situation of the Matrix.org Foundation

#64
post #3

OK? What do we expect them to do with the money, exactly? As a donor, I would expect they fund the development of Matrix, which I believe Element is doing?

Thank you for being a donor! Naturally, you can expect us to eventually publish an annual report that details revenue, expenses, and programmatic activities. At a high level, the payments to Element includes administrative services (accounting, legal, etc), operation of the matrix.org homeserver, and secondment of several personnel whose responsibilities include advocacy, program management, standards work, and trust and safety. The MSA also includes provisions for the Foundation to reimburse Element for any bills they pay on our behalf.

In terms of funding development, the Foundation's focus has mostly been on building open source trust and safety tooling since that is a gap that others haven't addressed.

Re: Financial situation of the Matrix.org Foundation

#65

The owing balance of Vector is concerning because the loan's payment, interest or default has to be marked in the books. People think running a non profit is easier but its much more difficult considering external, anonymous stakeholders.

Hi there! I'm the Managing Director of the Foundation. That owing balance is down to the many services for which we rely on Element.

The Foundation has a Master Services Agreement (MSA) with Element which includes administrative services, operation of the matrix.org homeserver, and secondment of several personnel whose responsibilities include advocacy, program management, standards work, and trust and safety. The MSA also includes provisions for the Foundation to reimburse Element for any bills they pay on our behalf.

More details and context in my official reply: https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-spec/issues/571#issueco...

Happy to address any other concerns or questions you may have.

Re: Financial situation of the Matrix.org Foundation

#66
post #2

Nothing jumps out that immediately causes me consternation as either an occasional donor or an (even more) occasional user, except perhaps the extreme delays in responses from foundation leadership. I broadly like matrix best of the chat/comms frameworks, but I keep turning back to signal, telegram, and whatsapp because of network effects. So, if shifting some personal efforts to the for-profit org makes sense to cor…

Hi there! Managing Director of the Foundation here. First, yes, the response times have not been great, though of course that's all been on the basis of volunteerism. Now that there's a full-time staffer you should expect better response times.

Regarding the payments to Element: those are based on the many services for which we still rely on Element.

The Foundation has a Master Services Agreement (MSA) with Element which includes administrative services, operation of the matrix.org homeserver, and secondment of several personnel whose responsibilities include advocacy, program management, standards work, and trust and safety. The MSA also includes provisions for the Foundation to reimburse Element for any bills they pay on our behalf.

More details and context in my official reply: https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-spec/issues/571#issueco...

Re: Financial situation of the Matrix.org Foundation

#67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In this instance, having Graphene screaming about how awful Matrix is and enumerating ways to cause moderation problems was not helpful during a moderation incident, especially where we had been scrambling to help them. To be fair, from what I hear GrapheneOS doesn't have the best reputation for its communication with other people, but strcat did appear rather apologetic in the thread. Regardless, we're experiencin…

> Hmm, this is where I disagree -- if you've been scrambling to help, wouldn't the issue have been fixed by now? We scrambled to investigate and fix this particular instance (and previous unrelated instances where they'd had problems). When we realised that they were simultaneously screaming about how shit we were, we put it back on the shelf.

> When we realised that they were simultaneously screaming about how shit we were

Right, but this is where your response baffles me: they've reported a genuine issue with the implementation, so why not fix it for everybody instead of "put[ting] it back on the shelf" and letting others suffer too?

It sort of sounds like "they complained about us, so fuck them and their issue" (except it's not just their issue). Wouldn't it be better to work around disagreements to benefit everybody, instead?

Re: Financial situation of the Matrix.org Foundation

#68
post #16
post #12

I am following the thread for years now and their financials were always a shitshow. I believe they never released anything on time or without the community begging for it. Well, except some fluff blog post at the end of the year without real data. I love Matrix but it's a fishy foundation. With this and Element not releasing server code under apache 2 anymore, it looks more and more like Element is going for entshit…

> Well, Josh is here so he will again start to deflect for some weeks and hope everyone will just forget about it until the next merry go round This has been my experience with how Matrix handles critique in general, e.g. the response to "why not matrix?" which left me disappointed. Looking at this, and also at low quality of the reference clients and servers, over-engineered protocols and the poor UX in general it d…

I agree with many of the issues you mentioned, but I still thing Matrix is the best-positioned solution in the space.

I think all those issues can be addressed, I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water.

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