SEC charges Kraken for operating as an unregistered securities exchange • Hacker News Board

Re: SEC charges Kraken for operating as an unregistered securities exchange

#31

Post by codetrotter » Tue, Nov 21, 2023, 12:07 AM UTC

guessmyname wrote: post #25

Kraken has recruited a significant number of Rust developers, or at least individuals keen on learning Rust, over the past few years. This presents a good opportunity for other companies that adhere to legal standards to consider hiring these developers. In 2020, I received an interview invitation from Kraken and subsequently received invitations five times in 2022. The engineering managers I conversed with took prid…

> This presents a good opportunity for other companies that adhere to legal standards to consider hiring these developers.

Kraken is my favorite exchange. They appear to put a lot of effort into abiding by local regulations in all countries they operate.

> I had consistently communicated my limited interest in the product, and both the technology and hiring manager appeared to be accepting of that fact

This sentence is so weird for me. Why would you want to work for a company if you seemingly don’t care about their product. And conversely, why would anyone ever hire someone for a role if the person looking to get hired doesn’t care about the product?

Re: SEC charges Kraken for operating as an unregistered securities exchange

#32

Post by Animats » Tue, Nov 21, 2023, 12:08 AM UTC

Ferret7446 wrote: post #28

kklisura wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find following more troubling: > As alleged in the complaint, Kraken commingles its customers’ money with its own, including paying operational expenses directly from accounts that hold customer cash. Didn't FTX/SBF do same?

Is that inherently problematic, as long as they're accounting properly?

Yes. Because they're gambling with the customers' money.

That seldom ends well.

Re: SEC charges Kraken for operating as an unregistered securities exchange

#33

Post by perihelions » Tue, Nov 21, 2023, 12:09 AM UTC

kklisura wrote: post #8

SeanAnderson wrote: post #6

Uhh, what? I've always considered Kraken to be the most rules-abiding exchange - more so than Coinbase. They're quite shrewd in what they're willing to list. I wonder if SEC is charging Coinbase soon, too?

> I wonder if SEC is charging Coinbase soon, too? Already happened. [1][2] [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36211820 [2] https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2023-102

The actual HN thread was here (417 comments, not just 4; both were posted 2023-06-06)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36212120 ("US SEC sues Coinbase, one day after suing Binance")

(To be clear, neither Coinbase nor Kraken were criminally charged. The phraseology "SEC charges" is a loaded, potentially misleading, one).

Re: SEC charges Kraken for operating as an unregistered securities exchange

#34

Post by guessmyname » Tue, Nov 21, 2023, 12:13 AM UTC

codetrotter wrote: post #31

guessmyname wrote: post #25

Kraken has recruited a significant number of Rust developers, or at least individuals keen on learning Rust, over the past few years. This presents a good opportunity for other companies that adhere to legal standards to consider hiring these developers. In 2020, I received an interview invitation from Kraken and subsequently received invitations five times in 2022. The engineering managers I conversed with took prid…

> This presents a good opportunity for other companies that adhere to legal standards to consider hiring these developers. Kraken is my favorite exchange. They appear to put a lot of effort into abiding by local regulations in all countries they operate. > I had consistently communicated my limited interest in the product, and both the technology and hiring manager appeared to be accepting of that fact This sentence…

> This sentence is so weird for me. Why would you want to work for a company if you seemingly don’t care about their product.

For money, of course. A company’s mission doesn’t pay for my groceries or rent.

A substantial compensation package serves as a strong incentive to perform well.

> And conversely, why would anyone ever hire someone for a role if the person looking to get hired doesn’t care about the product?

That is a good question for the companies that hired me during the last decade to lead some of their projects.

I can only speculate that if a company observes a person with a proven track record of successfully leading and delivering products that significantly contribute to revenue, they would prioritize hiring that individual, even if they lack enthusiasm for the product. Of course, it’s ideal to hire someone with both experience and genuine interest, but in my experience, such individuals are the exception rather than the rule.

If companies exclusively hired people passionate about their products, they might struggle to find suitable candidates.

Re: SEC charges Kraken for operating as an unregistered securities exchange

#35

Post by Animats » Tue, Nov 21, 2023, 12:14 AM UTC

Scott_Sanderson wrote: post #3

Kraken has been trading crypto coins since 2011. Why did it take the SEC so long to bring this suit?

The SEC seems to bring about 2 or 3 crypto enforcement actions per month.[1] They're still working down the ICO backlog. Mostly they've been going after issuers and out and out theft.

After FTX, political support for crypto deregulation dropped to near zero. FTX, remember, was lobbying for a bill that would allow all the things for which Kraken is now in trouble. That is going absolutely nowhere now.

Also, the SEC, CFTC, and Main Justice now have their act together on cooperating to deal with crypto scams. There used to be jurisdictional issues. Now, it's just treated as crime.

[1] https://www.sec.gov/spotlight/cybersecurity-enforcement-acti...

Re: SEC charges Kraken for operating as an unregistered securities exchange

#36

Post by ForkMeOnTinder » Tue, Nov 21, 2023, 12:15 AM UTC

Animats wrote: post #32

Ferret7446 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that inherently problematic, as long as they're accounting properly?

Yes. Because they're gambling with the customers' money. That seldom ends well.

Commingling doesn't imply gambling.

I could borrow $10 from Jim, and $20 from Sue, and deposit them both into the same Chase account which now has $30. As long as the balance stays above $30, everything is fine.

Re: SEC charges Kraken for operating as an unregistered securities exchange

#37

Post by ketzo » Tue, Nov 21, 2023, 12:16 AM UTC

SeanAnderson wrote: post #6

Uhh, what? I've always considered Kraken to be the most rules-abiding exchange - more so than Coinbase. They're quite shrewd in what they're willing to list. I wonder if SEC is charging Coinbase soon, too?

I mean, Kraken is not a registered securities exchange.

They offer many cryptocurrencies.

The SEC has indicated that it considers most, probably all, cryptocurrencies to a be securities.

The writing has been on the wall for a while -- Coinbase got a Wells letter, basically a "lawsuit is coming" warning, months ago.

Re: SEC charges Kraken for operating as an unregistered securities exchange

#38

Post by ketzo » Tue, Nov 21, 2023, 12:18 AM UTC

codetrotter wrote: post #31

guessmyname wrote: post #25

Kraken has recruited a significant number of Rust developers, or at least individuals keen on learning Rust, over the past few years. This presents a good opportunity for other companies that adhere to legal standards to consider hiring these developers. In 2020, I received an interview invitation from Kraken and subsequently received invitations five times in 2022. The engineering managers I conversed with took prid…

> This presents a good opportunity for other companies that adhere to legal standards to consider hiring these developers. Kraken is my favorite exchange. They appear to put a lot of effort into abiding by local regulations in all countries they operate. > I had consistently communicated my limited interest in the product, and both the technology and hiring manager appeared to be accepting of that fact This sentence…

> They appear to put a lot of effort into abiding by local regulations in all countries they operate.

Aside from registering as a securities exchange/broker/dealer in the U.S., which the SEC clearly believes they are.

Re: SEC charges Kraken for operating as an unregistered securities exchange

#39

Post by freedomben » Tue, Nov 21, 2023, 12:22 AM UTC

ofslidingfeet wrote: post #5

Scott_Sanderson wrote: post #3

Kraken has been trading crypto coins since 2011. Why did it take the SEC so long to bring this suit?

The regime changed, so now they're punishing everyone who played ball with disruptive elements of the previous regime's economic plan.

You're not wrong (and I upvoted you because your comment doesn't deserve to be so negative), but I don't think the previous regime was all that friendly toward crypto either...

Remember the IRS crackdowns all started under n-1

Re: SEC charges Kraken for operating as an unregistered securities exchange

#40

Post by glerk » Tue, Nov 21, 2023, 12:27 AM UTC

guessmyname wrote: post #34

codetrotter wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This presents a good opportunity for other companies that adhere to legal standards to consider hiring these developers. Kraken is my favorite exchange. They appear to put a lot of effort into abiding by local regulations in all countries they operate. > I had consistently communicated my limited interest in the product, and both the technology and hiring manager appeared to be accepting of that fact This sentence…

> This sentence is so weird for me. Why would you want to work for a company if you seemingly don’t care about their product. For money, of course. A company’s mission doesn’t pay for my groceries or rent. A substantial compensation package serves as a strong incentive to perform well. > And conversely, why would anyone ever hire someone for a role if the person looking to get hired doesn’t care about the product? Th…

Please take this as constructive criticism: telling an interviewer you’re not interested in the product and you only care about collecting a paycheck comes across as arrogant and is a huge red flag. Ultimately, people hire people they want to work with. You might be in the top 0.1% rust programmers, and I would still not hire you because of that attitude.