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Krita AI Diffusion

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Re: Krita AI Diffusion

#181

Post by GeoAtreides »

ben_w wrote: post #72
vouaobrasil wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is absolutely ridiculous and short-sighted. AI is a tool that is and always will make the creation of art less a matter of the expression of the human soul. What techies NEVER understand about art is this: that art is not just the end product for the artist but something they use to express THEMSELVES. UNLIKE other tools, AI makes creative decisions. No other tool has done this, and moreover, its primary purpose…

> AI is a tool that is and always will make the creation of art less a matter of the expression of the human soul I firmly disagree. I have a very strong imagination, but I never had time (and still don't have the time between full-time work and needing to learn German) to develop the skills to turn what I can imagine into artefacts that others can enjoy by my own hand . AI gives me the means to turn some of what I i…

> fully automated luxury communism

It's actually "fully automated luxury gay space communism", all words are important there. Also, in the Culture series, arguably the seminal series about the "fully automated etc.", there's a whole scene about AI producing art (i.e. nobody cares or think it's interesting)

Re: Krita AI Diffusion

#182

Post by charcircuit »

jwells89 wrote: post #150
flxy wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what sort of artists you know, but of all the artists I know, nobody is "completely fine" with tracing. It is okay but still frowned upon when people do it for "practice" without publishing the result, but anything that even looks remotely like it is traced gets called out and further investigated incredibly quickly. And as for fan art, a lot of companies explicitly allow art based on their IP, as long a…

Tracing is particularly unacceptable in professional settings. There’s been several cases, some even somewhat high profile, where manga and comic artists have found themselves in hot water as a result of engaging in the practice.

>Tracing is particularly unacceptable in professional settings.

Tracing is a fundamental skill in a professional settings for consistency, speed, and quality reasons. In torepaku it is the paku (pakuri) part that is not acceptable.

Re: Krita AI Diffusion

#183

Post by Gormo »

makeitdouble wrote: post #91
raincole wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think at one point Krita will fork to two apps because of this exact reason. AI-based tools are clearly the next step of painting apps (to me at least, but I can't be the only one who believes in this). I think in 3~5 years an painting app without AI generation feature is just like a painting app without pen pressure today. It's still usable, you can make great art with it if you have the skill, but it will be so o…

Is it that different from how we view Github copilot ? As far as I know there's a sizeable number of devs who don't intend to ever rely on copilot, and I would expect the a similar trend in the drawing community with amateurs and pros not specially anti-AI, but not wanting to have a random generator meddle with their art.

I think it's a bit of an apples-and-oranges comparison. There are vastly different downstream consequences and risk exposure associated with using AI to design and implement functionality for mission-critical infrastructure vs. using AI to draw pictures.

Re: Krita AI Diffusion

#184

Post by danielbln »

kzrdude wrote: post #178
vonjuice wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have art galleries displaying things like empty canvases or toilet bowls that make a statement, it's definitely not about difficulty. The fact is that the debate about what art is is part of what makes art art, it escapes definition because part of the spirit of art is rebelling against definition.

We can't judge all of the art sphere just from the worst examples. Think of people who judge software by our worst examples (crypto scams, I don't know)?

Why is a simple modern art piece necessarily one of the worst and examples?

Re: Krita AI Diffusion

#185

Post by throwaway4aday »

southerntofu wrote: post #109
hutzlibu wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"As far as I know there's a sizeable number of devs who don't intend to ever rely on copilot" Is that really a thing? I mean, I also don't want to rely on Microsoft and therefore also not on Copilot, but not using AI tools in general out of principle is probably a very rare minority. I simply would prefer my own local LLM. But in the thread linked above I read "AI never had and never will have it’s place in art." And…

> "As far as I know there's a sizeable number of devs who don't intend to ever rely on copilot" I'm one of those. I've been programming for a while now and there's no way i'm gonna trust a neural network with my code. Debugging is painful enough without having to deal with subtle bugs hallucinated by ML. Some machines are really useful to reduce human suffering and augment our collective capabilities. Some machines a…

We don't have 1 day a week workweeks not because it isn't possible but because we don't live late 19th / early 20th century lifestyles anymore. We have modern cities, infrastructure, transportation, manufacturing, power generation, diets, and recreation. I don't think many would want to go back to an agrarian lifestyle where you live in a one or two room brick cottage, walk everywhere, till a field with a very simple, small tractor, eat only what you grow seasonally, have two changes of clothes, and own basically nothing but the bare essentials to clean and feed yourself. If you did that then sure you could share the work between a little commune and maybe get by on a rotation of duties if you had enough up front capital to buy all the labor saving devices and could manage to keep everyone happy enough to share it all equally but I have a feeling it would still wind up being a hard life of poverty. There's also the question of how you keep all of the manufacturing and professional services going with so little demand for their outputs. There are very good reasons why the vast majority of the populace used to be stuck in subsistence farming for life and why that only changed with the advent of mass production and market economies.

Re: Krita AI Diffusion

#186

Post by boredtofears »

raincole wrote: post #19
hafriedlander wrote: post #8

Somewhat tangential, but the Krita community and core team have been pretty explicitly anti-AI. https://krita-artists.org/t/change-in-policy-for-topics-rela... (I am part of a group that builds UI on top of open models, but we stopped working on our Krita version for that reason.)

I think at one point Krita will fork to two apps because of this exact reason. AI-based tools are clearly the next step of painting apps (to me at least, but I can't be the only one who believes in this). I think in 3~5 years an painting app without AI generation feature is just like a painting app without pen pressure today. It's still usable, you can make great art with it if you have the skill, but it will be so o…

thats such a bummer. are we then doomed to only sample previous artists interpretation of an owl for the rest of time?

Re: Krita AI Diffusion

#187

Post by lfkdev »

LoganDark wrote: post #177
throwaway30230 wrote: post #176

At this point it seems pointless to even bother to try given that AI will generate all possible artwork within a couple years. I mean. Say you get "good" at using this. What's the life expectancy at any kind of creative outlet you could have that would support you? I mean if we're talking this is fun as a toy, yeah ok. I could see that. But as a job? When everyone can paint no one is paid for it. I suppose that we co…

Never underestimate the number of kinks out there

I'm quite sure the will be models specific for all kind of kinks.

Re: Krita AI Diffusion

#188

Post by orbital-decay »

Fraterkes wrote: post #173
orbital-decay wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not the expectation at all; a lot of work is being done to make it run on underpowered hardware. SD in particular runs on a 8-years-old potato, albeit slowly and with limitations, despite originally barely fitting into 10GB VRAM. >A theoretical nice thing about Krita and art in these past decades was that you could be an 18 year old with some ok drawing skills, a thinkpad, a secondhand wacom tablet and a versi…

Sure, the part about everyone just pirating photoshop is absolutely tue (it comes out to be the same thing though, you can't pirate hardware). My point is the gap in potential quality and art output between photoshop on a powerful pc an a pirated copy of ps on a thinkpad is pretty small: you need a lot of ram to produce 4k art, but a thinkpad is fine for most comissions. The gap is obviously a lot larger with ai: you…

Commissions are professional work. If you need speed to get things done, you can pay to rent the GPU and the cost will be negligible to what you earn, even if you're just starting. This is really not that much of a barrier compared to the hoops hobbyist 3D artists had to jump through 20 years ago.

Regardless, you can run SD on a several years old laptop just fine, this is entirely within the reach of most; yes you won't be getting realtime updates but that's not really necessary.

And that's only the beginning. SD was trained using really poor data; everybody is doing that on semi-synthetic datasets with much higher quality labeling now; high quality data and new advancements (see the Beyond U paper [1], for example) allow fitting more into several times less weights with much faster inference. In a year or two, this will be available to practically everyone.

[1] https://arxiv.org/abs/2310.20092

Re: Krita AI Diffusion

#189

Post by Gormo »

thot_experiment wrote: post #13
hafriedlander wrote: post #8

Somewhat tangential, but the Krita community and core team have been pretty explicitly anti-AI. https://krita-artists.org/t/change-in-policy-for-topics-rela... (I am part of a group that builds UI on top of open models, but we stopped working on our Krita version for that reason.)

The AI hate is suuuch a meme in the art community, it's very frustrating/alienating. (Though understandably, neoliberal capitalism is also extremely frustrating, so I see why artists mad, I just wish they'd be mad at the root cause.) ((the root cause is that an economic system fundamentally based on scarcity == value doesn't make sense when applied to things that are essentially infinite, and kludgeing in artificial…

Agreed that trying to create artificial scarcity is not good (and isn't really compatible with any ethical system, least of all "neoliberal capitalism"), but it should be pointed out that natural scarcity is an a priori fact of nature that economics itself is our method of dealing with, and is not a normative contrivance of any "economic system".

I'm not entirely sure how any of this relates to artists agitating against AI, unless they are themselves seeking to create artificial scarcity to prop up the market value of their services, now that the supply of art ability is no longer as constrained as it previously was.

Re: Krita AI Diffusion

#190

Post by [deleted] »

tannhaeuser wrote: post #38

It says Mac OS support is untested, but wouldn't Mac OS be a great test bed, with many graphic pro users, and Apple Silicon running Stable Diffusion out of the box? DiffusionBee already does in-/outpainting and basically all the other things this integration is promising, you only have to copy/paste image data and resolution/context parameters I guess. But then this brings in the Python ML stack which seems like a no…

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