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Stuxnet worm reportedly planted by Iranian double agent using memory stick

arstechnica.com

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Re: Stuxnet worm reportedly planted by Iranian double agent using memory stick

#21

Post by [deleted] »

kposehn wrote: post #11
micahgoulart wrote: post #9

One has to question the reason why this information was leaked now. My guess is that Israel or the US wants Iran to be paranoid about a secret agent within their nuclear facilities and go hunting for a mole. Imagine if Israel planted evidence on a prominent Iranian physicist? Good luck proving your innocence. The whole Stuxnet story would make for a great spy novel, that's for sure.

We've been at covert war with them for some time, and this is just another shot fired. That said, one hell of a shot. They hit Iran, Syria, Russia, China (and Germany!) with one little leaked bullet...each of those countries is eyeing their industrial processes and engineers just a but more closely after today.

[deleted]

Re: Stuxnet worm reportedly planted by Iranian double agent using memory stick

#22

Post by beedogs »

kai-zer wrote: post #17
morturus wrote: post #5

US itself and Israel engaged in sabotage of foreign countries development? you don't say...

Development of weapons-grade uranium for which the only purpose is for use in weapons of mass destruction... You make it sound like that is a bad thing.

...or energy production. But, yeah, let's just say they're going to make a nuclear weapon, so that we can be "justified" when we invade them for their resources.

Re: Stuxnet worm reportedly planted by Iranian double agent using memory stick

#23

Post by beedogs »

loverobots wrote: post #8
morturus wrote: post #5

US itself and Israel engaged in sabotage of foreign countries development? you don't say...

Well, Iran's leaders have stated that they wish to wipe Israel off the map. At least Israel has a legitimate reason to what they are doing and then some.

Nice, more repetition of the same mistranslation.

Even if Iran's goal is to build a nuclear weapon -- which, from all rational reports, doesn't seem to be the case -- I'm having a hard time sympathizing with a country that already has several hundred nuclear warheads trying to prevent another neighboring country from acquiring one.

Re: Stuxnet worm reportedly planted by Iranian double agent using memory stick

#24

Post by mahmud »

loverobots wrote: post #8
morturus wrote: post #5

US itself and Israel engaged in sabotage of foreign countries development? you don't say...

Well, Iran's leaders have stated that they wish to wipe Israel off the map. At least Israel has a legitimate reason to what they are doing and then some.

Israel did wipe another country off the map: Palestine. Yet we trust them with nukes, which they don't have at all.

Re: Stuxnet worm reportedly planted by Iranian double agent using memory stick

#25

Post by nitrogen »

loverobots wrote: post #16
nitrogen wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That suggests there was a first attack in this conflict; AIUI, the Israel vs. middle east conflict is centuries old, and this is just the latest chapter of escalation and posturing. Once could also argue that Iran is justified in wanting to eliminate Israel because Israel is acting to prevent Iran's growth. Don't mistake my words for wanting to live in Iran -- I just find myself disgusted when we westerners use a rid…

It's more than judging "behavior," Iran has specifically said that they want to wipe Israel off the map. More than once. So it is, or it may be a matter of life and death, not just tolerating someone's odd choice in clothes, or whatever. Is Iran bluffing, are Iran's leader rational or brainwashed religious fanatics? When all it takes is one nuke, why should Israel wait to find out?

Many in the US have said the same thing about Iran. When all it takes is one nuke, why should Iran wait to find out? See the hypocrisy? Existential threats work both ways. Are those US talking heads and politicians "brainwashed religious fanatics?" A more important question is why Iran('s government) wants (or claims to want) to eliminate Israel, and how to change their mind (or their government) peacefully.

Re: Stuxnet worm reportedly planted by Iranian double agent using memory stick

#26

Post by justsee »

loverobots wrote: post #8
morturus wrote: post #5

US itself and Israel engaged in sabotage of foreign countries development? you don't say...

Well, Iran's leaders have stated that they wish to wipe Israel off the map. At least Israel has a legitimate reason to what they are doing and then some.

No they haven't. That convenient mistranslation is widely reported because it suits the narrative of the major political powers [1].

They've essentially said the current political regime in Israel must / will disappear. However that sentiment is less useful if your aim is to portray the Iranian state as an aggressive, modern-day Nazi regime though.

Anyway that aim (essentially portraying Iran as a country dedicated to the extermination of Jews in the Middle East) completely falls apart in the mind of anyone who cares to review the facts: Iran houses the largest population of Jews in the Middle East outside Israel, with population estimates ranging between 30,000 and 90,000 people (most sources put it at 75 000) [2], and they are represented in the Iranian parliament.

The current Iranian regime is certainly terrible, and can and should be condemned for many reasons, but pushing the notion that Iran threatens Israel with genocide is pr-fueled nonsense. Useless for intelligent discussion, but handy for manipulating public opinion.

[1] http://www.counterpunch.org/2006/08/28/putting-words-in-ahma...

[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_Jews

Re: Stuxnet worm reportedly planted by Iranian double agent using memory stick

#27

Post by statictype »

kai-zer wrote: post #17
morturus wrote: post #5

US itself and Israel engaged in sabotage of foreign countries development? you don't say...

Development of weapons-grade uranium for which the only purpose is for use in weapons of mass destruction... You make it sound like that is a bad thing.

... and there goes the rest of this comment thread down the politics rat hole.

Re: Stuxnet worm reportedly planted by Iranian double agent using memory stick

#28

Post by wolf550e »

justsee wrote: post #26
loverobots wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, Iran's leaders have stated that they wish to wipe Israel off the map. At least Israel has a legitimate reason to what they are doing and then some.

No they haven't. That convenient mistranslation is widely reported because it suits the narrative of the major political powers [1]. They've essentially said the current political regime in Israel must / will disappear. However that sentiment is less useful if your aim is to portray the Iranian state as an aggressive, modern-day Nazi regime though. Anyway that aim (essentially portraying Iran as a country dedicated t…

He said the State of Israel has no right to exist and that regime must vanish. [1]

I think that is clear enough. The USA and the USSR exchanged similar messages, and also funded proxy wars against each other.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad_and_Israel#...

Re: Stuxnet worm reportedly planted by Iranian double agent using memory stick

#29

Post by barrkel »

Retric wrote: post #20
AngrySkillzz wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A statement for which you have no evidence. And what threat does Iran pose to the United States? None at all.

That's a rather strong statement. Some people would argue that Iran with weapons grade uranium could reasonably increase the chances that 50,000 Americans will die in the next 10 years by more than 1 in 10,000. That suggests the US could reasonably kill 5 Iranians to deal with the threat. However, Iran would respond to such action which suggests a more limited response such such as planting a virus is reasonable as l…

I think a nuclear armed Iran would greatly decrease the probability of Americans being killed by Iranians.

The logic is simple: nukes bring a country into MAD (mutually assured destruction) mechanics. Most likely Iran would use Israel as a hostage since it would not have the ICBMs necessary to attack the US directly. It would be like North Korea and Japan, only "Japan" would be nuclear armed.

I consider invasion of Iran by the US the most likely vector for Iranians killing Americans. MAD should prevent this, like it does in North Korea.

(I don't buy neo-conservative anti-Muslim ideology around suicidal leaders for a second. NK is far worse in this respect, IMO; that whole country is being led on a suicidal basis.)

Re: Stuxnet worm reportedly planted by Iranian double agent using memory stick

#30

Post by wolf550e »

beedogs wrote: post #22
kai-zer wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Development of weapons-grade uranium for which the only purpose is for use in weapons of mass destruction... You make it sound like that is a bad thing.

...or energy production. But, yeah, let's just say they're going to make a nuclear weapon, so that we can be "justified" when we invade them for their resources.

Look, you can say that Iran has a right to have nuclear weapons (I would prefer they didn't).

You can say that the US only cares because of oil (I'll agree with you), though you only mean Iranian oil while I mean Iran's pressure on the gulf states and their oil trade.

But you can't legitimately say that Iran is not working on a nuclear weapons program. Too many secret facilities, too well protected, for their program to be merely civilian.

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