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Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

philip.greenspun.com

501–510 of 511 posts

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#501

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a number of them from two or three different brands. They had tendency to cause sparking and I lost at least one phone due to it. The phone was fine but it lost ability to be charged through the USB port. And because it did not have wireless charging, when the battery ran out it became an expensive brick.

Yup, I lost a chromebook that way. I think magnetic connections are fine for 5V power with no data line, but as soon as you add more connections and try increasing voltage/power you are asking for trouble.

My deep fryer has a magnetic connection for the power cord. That's high voltage and wattage, and works just fine.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really wish we’d end up with something like the old MagSafe.

maybe we can get that for USB-D in 2025 after the Apple magsafe patent runs out

Can we just stop changing things up in the USB world for a while? USB-C causes me more headaches than the prior USB incarnations do, but changing these things is itself painful enough that I'd rather just put up with what we have now than change yet again.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Minimum is just that, minimum. Have you ever seen a broken standard USB port or connector? Me not once in my entire life, unlike micro-USB or USB-C.

Yeah but 10,000 connections is WAY past any reasonable motherboard lifespan. Meaning the minimum for USB-C is ridiculously over-engineered for any motherboard.

> Yeah but 10,000 connections is WAY past any reasonable motherboard lifespan.

I just don't believe that those connectors last that long in the real world. My personal experience and observations indicate that they don't. Or, at least, they're much less robust than earlier USB connector designs.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, I lost a chromebook that way. I think magnetic connections are fine for 5V power with no data line, but as soon as you add more connections and try increasing voltage/power you are asking for trouble.

My deep fryer has a magnetic connection for the power cord. That's high voltage and wattage, and works just fine.

Because the only two pins are hot and neutral, which are designed to have high voltage across them.

Put 20 V Vbus on a CC line and see what happens.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My deep fryer has a magnetic connection for the power cord. That's high voltage and wattage, and works just fine.

Because the only two pins are hot and neutral, which are designed to have high voltage across them. Put 20 V Vbus on a CC line and see what happens.

That seems more likely to be because that design was bad rather than that the concept is bad.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#506

My experience has shown that USB C connectors are far more fragile than A, and every time I plug one in, for some reason the fit just feels vague and unsatisfying. An A plug, when you get it the right way, slides in solidly. As others have mentioned, C seems to have been designed to be the smallest possible, which makes sense for mobile devices, but not for a desktop and its peripherals.

> but not for a desktop and its peripherals. This doesn't make sense to me. Why should it be bigger?

[deleted]

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The wheel was invented before anyone living today yet it remains relevant.

Only because this is living rent-free in my head - a good wheel analogy would be Type C is rubber wheels and Type A is wooden wheels. Compatible, but nobody uses wood anymore.

I don't think that analogy works. On the female side, Type A is robust and Type C is fragile. I'd prefer to have my equipment with the more robust solution if at all possible, because fixing it is a real problem.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#508
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My pixel slate has a USB-C port that will only charge in one orientation.

That sounds like it's either broken or there's some dust or lint in the plug/cable. Google is usually pretty good about their USB-C implementations.

Of course it's broken. It also won't power on unplugged, even with a full battery.

Definitely not googles finest device.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#509
post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can buy middle American mass market automobiles that have USB-C and do not have USB-A. That’s your bellwether. Most of the USB user base doesn’t care about that nerdy stuff.

I'm not a tech nerd. I'm a lab biologist who just comments here. Multiple ports is my non-nerdy, non-rich use case. My current car is almost 17 years old, and was bought used last year to replace the 20 year old car that I totaled. I certainly can't afford most cars with any USB ports, and wouldn't want them if I could. Are car USB ports used for anything other than smart phones?

Car USB ports are generally only for smartphones, which is the #1 computing platform in the world.

That’s really the crux of my point. USB-C is the “winner” because it’s ubiquitous in the smartphone and tablet world (especially now with full adoption from Apple underway).

Cars are also a piece of technology that does a frat job representing the lowest common denominator of the average consumer’s relationship with technology. If your brand new $2,500 MacBook Pro doesn’t have a CD player, that doesn’t mean the CD is dead. It’s an expensive early adopter’s device. But if your brand new Toyota Corolla base model doesn’t have a CD player, that means it’s DEAD.

There’s also the answer to the question “what’s the most likely cable I have on me?” If you have an Android or Apple phone from the past 5 years you don’t have any rectangular USB-A cable with you in your travel bag.

I would also argue that the average person has very little practical use for USB for a lot of its data transfer capabilities anymore. The average person who owns a laptop probably never plugs in anything to the port besides things they are charging or maybe a mouse dongle.

It’s expected that your car (and most people’s cars) are older, but what I’m saying is that the fact that someone buying a new car doesn’t get USB-A pretty much shows us that it’s not long for this world if not dead already.

Sure, my desktop still has plenty of USB-A ports since space is not at a premium and nerdy custom builders demand them. But if you buy a desktop computer from Apple it doesn’t have any, and PC OEMs like HP and Dell won’t be far behind.

The only thing I’ve used the USB ports on my desktop for are mouse dongles and a fingerprint scanner. Basically, ~$20 disposable tech that would work perfectly fine as a USB-C version. My keyboard has already made the switch to USB-C and my mouse charges with USB-C as well, and I bought these items multiple years ago.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#510

My experience has shown that USB C connectors are far more fragile than A, and every time I plug one in, for some reason the fit just feels vague and unsatisfying. An A plug, when you get it the right way, slides in solidly. As others have mentioned, C seems to have been designed to be the smallest possible, which makes sense for mobile devices, but not for a desktop and its peripherals.

In a macbook pro build it certainly feels like this. I have an old 2015 mbp with A connectors serving for almost ten years now. When I plug something in it is tight and solid and feels right. On my latest mbp with C connectors, they are loose already after a year of service, I need to wiggle and shake the connector inside the port to get a nice contact and make peripherals work, of course, that breaks it even more over time.
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