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Emmett Shear becomes interim OpenAI CEO as Altman talks break down

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Re: Emmett Shear becomes interim OpenAI CEO as Altman talks break down

#901
post #488

This will be an interesting test to see how fast you can bootstrap GPT-4 level performance with unlimited funds and talent that already has deep knowledge of the internals. With the initial adoption of ChatGPT alongside Copilot, OpenAI's data moat of crawled data & RLHF is pretty vast. And that's not leaving the walled garden of OpenAI. You can simulate a lot of this using other off-the-shelf LLMs (see Alpaca) but no…

Realistically if they start now they’d need to hit gpt 5 like levels not 4.

Still, given the exodus and resources now available I’d imagine pretty fast

Re: Emmett Shear becomes interim OpenAI CEO as Altman talks break down

#902
post #862
post #833

Is there a good article, or does anyone have the slightest inkling, about what the real conflict here is? There's a lot of articles about the symptoms, but what's the core issue here? The board claims Altman lied. Is that it? About what? Did he consistently misinform the board about a ton of different things? Or about one really important issue? Or is this just an excuse disguising the actual issues? I notice a lot o…

I'm not sure what more information people need. The original announcement was pretty clear: https://openai.com/blog/openai-announces-leadership-transiti... . Specifically: > Mr. Altman’s departure follows a deliberative review process by the board, which concluded that he was not consistently candid in his communications with the board, hindering its ability to exercise its responsibilities. > it remains the fundamen…

That original announcement doesn't make it nearly as explicit as you're making it. It doesn't say what he lied about, and it doesn't say he's not on board with the mission.

Sounds like firing was done to better serve the original mission, and is therefore probably a good thing. Though the way it's happening does come across as sloppy and panicky to me. Especially since they already replaced their first replacement CEO.

Edit: turns out Wikipedia already has a pretty good write up about the situation:

> "Sutskever is one of the six board members of the non-profit entity which controls OpenAI.[7] According to Sam Altman and Greg Brockman, Sutskever was the primary driver behind the November 2023 board meeting that led to Altman's firing and Brockman's resignation from OpenAI.[30][31] The Information reported that the firing in part resulted from a conflict over the extent to which the company should commit to AI safety.[32] In a company all-hands shortly after the board meeting, Sutskever stated that firing Altman was "the board doing its duty."[33] The firing of Altman and resignation of Brockman led to resignation of 3 senior researchers from OpenAI."

(from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilya_Sutskever)

Re: Emmett Shear becomes interim OpenAI CEO as Altman talks break down

#904
post #448

The contrast between the media's depiction of today's events with this outcome demonstrates how much Sam and his aligned interests can influence a narrative. The vast majority of reporting indicated that Sam held all the leverage, the board members were about to be fired, and a new board would be appointed which would be much better aligned with Sam. These accounts took special care to portray the current board as in…

I'm still surprised how little attention there has been on the fact that Sam Altman's sister is accusing him of sexually assaulting her when she was younger. His own sister, even if it's not true, it reflects poorly to have this kind of relationship with your sister that she'd say this, and if it's true, it's very problematic. And for some reason, very very little mention of this. I just find it suspicious from a med…

> even if it's not true, it reflects poorly to have this kind of relationship with your sister that she'd say this

People making false accusations against you reflects poorly on _you_ now? What a world to live in.

Re: Emmett Shear becomes interim OpenAI CEO as Altman talks break down

#905
post #835

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you talking about OpenAI or about Sam Altman's hypothetical new company? OpenAI already had the best technology fully developed and in production when Microsoft invested in them. I believe "cargo cult" means something quite different to how you're using it. It's not "cargo cult" to consider someone's CV when you hire them for a new job. Sam Altman ran a successful AI company before and he most likely can do it ag…

> Are you talking about OpenAI or about Sam Altman's hypothetical new company? About him and Greg joining to Microsoft. > I believe "cargo cult" means something quite different to how you're using it. I don't think so. Tribes believed that building wooden air strips or planes would bring the goods they have seen during wartime. People believe that bringing Altman will bring the same thing (OpenAI as is ) exactly wher…

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Re: Emmett Shear becomes interim OpenAI CEO as Altman talks break down

#906
post #835

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you talking about OpenAI or about Sam Altman's hypothetical new company? OpenAI already had the best technology fully developed and in production when Microsoft invested in them. I believe "cargo cult" means something quite different to how you're using it. It's not "cargo cult" to consider someone's CV when you hire them for a new job. Sam Altman ran a successful AI company before and he most likely can do it ag…

> Are you talking about OpenAI or about Sam Altman's hypothetical new company? About him and Greg joining to Microsoft. > I believe "cargo cult" means something quite different to how you're using it. I don't think so. Tribes believed that building wooden air strips or planes would bring the goods they have seen during wartime. People believe that bringing Altman will bring the same thing (OpenAI as is ) exactly wher…

OpenAI did not invent the transformer architecture. It was not their original research, but they implemented it well. Sam Altman led the company that implemented and executed it. Deep learning is not a secret. It just needs a lot of resources to be executed properly. OpenAI doesn't have any secret methods unknown to the rest of the AI community. They have strong engineering and execution. It is certainly within the CEO's power to influence that.

Re: Emmett Shear becomes interim OpenAI CEO as Altman talks break down

#907

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The trick is that execs do have unusually good insight into how their tech works, because they can ask their reports to explain it. Btw, I think it's funny how much credit Hinton gets for AI. His contribution is pretty much just keeping some grad students on the problem.

> His contribution is pretty much just keeping some grad students on the problem. I think the second best thing after having technical knowledge is to recognize smart employees and then not get in their way...

It's important but in tech world you'd get it as explicit "leadership" credit rather than a researcher, I think. Or maybe people would just call you a middle manager.

Re: Emmett Shear becomes interim OpenAI CEO as Altman talks break down

#908

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does "properly aligned" even mean? Democracies even with countries don't have alignment, let alone democracies across the world. They're a complete mess of many conflicting and contradictory stances and opinions. This sounds, to me, like the company leadership want the ability to do some sort of picking of winners and losers, bypassing the electorate.

> What does "properly aligned" even mean? You know those stories where someone makes a pact with the devil/djin/other wish granting entity, and the entity does one interpretation of what was wished, but since it is not what the wisher intended it all goes terribly wrong? The idea of alignment is to make the djin which not only can grant wishes, but it does them according to the unstated intention of the wisher. You m…

I like your extremist example, however I fear what "properly aligned" means for more vague situations, where it is not at all clear what the "correct" path is, or worse, that it's very clear what "correct" is for some people, but that "correct" is another man's "evil".

Re: Emmett Shear becomes interim OpenAI CEO as Altman talks break down

#909

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, there isn't a correct way to do anything in the real world, only in logic problems. Agree to disagree? If there's one thing physics teaches us, it's that the real world is just math. I mean, re GOFAI, it's not like Transformers and DL are any less "logic problem" than Eurisko or Eliza were. Re counterfactuals, yes, the problem is uncomputable at the limit. That's not "unknown unknowns", that's just the problem…

> I mean, re GOFAI, it's not like Transformers and DL are any less "logic problem" than Eurisko or Eliza were. Hmm, they're not a complete anything but they're pretty different as they're not discrete. That's how we can teach them undefinable things like writing styles. It seems like a good ingredient. Personally I don't think you can create anything that's humanlike without being embodied in the world, which is most…

Iunno, quantized networks are pretty discrete. It seems a lot of the continuity only really has value during training. (If that!)

> So's this. It's true; no system of rationalism can be correct because the real world isn't discrete, and none are better than this one, but also this one isn't correct. So you should not start a religion based on it.

I mean, nobody's actually done this. Honestly I hear more about Bayes' Theorem from rationality critics than rationalists. Do some people take it too far? Sure.

But also

> the real world isn't discrete

That's a strange objection. Our data channels are certainly discrete: a photon either hits your retina or it doesn't. Neurons firing or not is pretty discrete, physics is maybe discrete... I'd say reality being continuous is as much speculation as it being discrete is. At any rate, the problem of induction arises just as much in a discrete system as in a continuous one.

> Example: if someone comes to you and tries to make you believe in Russell's teapot, you should ignore them even though they might be right.

Sure, but you should do that because you have no evidence for Russell's Teapot. The history of human evolution and current AI revolution are at least evidence for the possibility of superhuman intelligence.

"A teapot in orbit around Jupiter? Don't be ridiculous!" is maybe the worst possible argument against Russell's Teapot. There are strong reasons why there cannot be a teapot there, and this argument touches upon none of them.

If somebody comes to you with an argument that the British have started a secret space mission to Jupiter, and being British they'd probably taken a teapot along, then you will need to employ different arguments than if somebody asserted that the teapot just arose in orbit spontaneously. The catch-all argument about ridiculousness no longer works the same way. And hey, maybe you discover that the British did have a secret space program and a Jupiter cult in government. Proposing a logical argument creates points at which interacting with reality may change your mind. Scoffing and referring to science fiction gives you no such avenue.

> But a reasonable real world analog would be industrial equipment, which definitely can kill you but we more or less have under control. Or cars, which we don't really have under control and just ignore it when they kill people because we like them so much, but they don't self-replicate and do run out of gas. Or human babies, which are self-replicating intelligences that can't be aligned but so far don't end the world.

The thing is that reality really has no obligation to limit itself to what you consider reasonable threats. Was the asteroid that killed the dinosaurs a reasonable threat? It would have had zero precedents in their experience. Our notion of reasonableness is a heuristic built from experience, it's not a law. There's a famous term, "black swan", about failures of heuristics. But black swans are not "unknown unknowns"! No biologist would ever have said that black swans were impossible, even if they'd never seen nor heard of one. The problem of induction is not an excuse to give up on making predictions. If you know how animals work, the idea of a black swan is hardly out of context, and finding a black swan in the wild does not pose a problem for the field of biology. It is only common sense that is embarrassed by exceptions.

Re: Emmett Shear becomes interim OpenAI CEO as Altman talks break down

#910
post #906

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are you talking about OpenAI or about Sam Altman's hypothetical new company? About him and Greg joining to Microsoft. > I believe "cargo cult" means something quite different to how you're using it. I don't think so. Tribes believed that building wooden air strips or planes would bring the goods they have seen during wartime. People believe that bringing Altman will bring the same thing (OpenAI as is ) exactly wher…

OpenAI did not invent the transformer architecture. It was not their original research, but they implemented it well. Sam Altman led the company that implemented and executed it. Deep learning is not a secret. It just needs a lot of resources to be executed properly. OpenAI doesn't have any secret methods unknown to the rest of the AI community. They have strong engineering and execution. It is certainly within the C…

I don't claim that OpenAI will be the same without Sam, but Sam will be powerless without OpenAI.

What I say is, both lost their status quo (OpenAI as the performer, Sam as the leader), and both will have to re-adjust and re-orient.

The magic smoke has been let out. Even if you restore the "configuration" of OpenAI with Sam and all employees before Friday, it's almost impossible to get the same company from these parts.

Again, Sam was part of what made OpenAI what it is, and without it, he won't be able to perform the same. Same is equally valid for OpenAI.

Things are changing, it's better to observe rather than dig for an entity or a person. Life is bigger than both of them, even when combined.

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