Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Revenge bedtime procrastination

solvingprocrastination.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 89 posts

Re: Revenge bedtime procrastination

#71

Post by nunez »

CowOfKrakatoa wrote: post #44

Haven't read the comments, but I have something to contribute. I am married and a parent of a 1.5-year-old child. Employed at a full-time job, working out is something I consider mandatory. Adding all this together, plus household chores, it leaves little time for personal projects or just chilling out by myself. I used to stay up late to get some alone time, but as the article describes, it is not sustainable, espec…

I've started doing this as well this year, waking between 0530 and 0700. I work out within an hour of getting up.

I'm usually ready for work between 0930 and 1030. It required a LOT of training (I am not, historically, a morning person) but I have been super consistent with it for the last few months.

On a plus side, I can get up without an alarm now on a consistent basis. On the minus side, I now get super sleepy at 2200, which makes hanging out late very difficult.

The alternative was starting work when I got up, but the flipside to this was my workouts getting on super late if I got hit with a late meeting. I still work out like this while I'm traveling. It usually means I have to skip on team dinner, which sucks.

Re: Revenge bedtime procrastination

#72

Post by nunez »

elynde wrote: post #30

Bedtime procrastination is my kryptonite. Every other habit like working hard, exercising, eating right I do well at but can't fix this. I've battled with it my whole life. Even as a toddler I would stay up late reading in secret. There is just something about the stillness when everyone else is asleep where I feel like my brain can finally wind down/process the day/kick back and relax. Anyone else struggled so badly…

I bedtime procrastinated pretty badly.

CBT-I helped a lot. It forces you to skip to a schedule. The schedule is completely set around the time that you want to get up. Or at least it forced me to; I was paying $300/mo for the privilege!

Quitting Reddit helped a lot too. I wouldn't have done this had their leadership team decided to go hostile with their API access, but they did, so i did. It's been a great time-regainer. I didn't realize until after I left (and using this site more) that Reddit was designed to be a textual version of the same hooks that keep people glued to social media, which I quit almost entirely years back for the same reason.

(New Reddit does infinite scroll by default, with no way of turning it off, along with boosting chats, de-emphasizing multireddits in favor of subscribed reddits, tweaks their front page to maximize engagement, rewards short, quippy posts regardless of substance, and more. I still browse Reddit through Google for finding local restaurants and things to do, but I'm enjoying that while I can until I have to trudge through TripAdvisor or city-data.)

These days, I fall asleep within 15 mins of hitting the bed and wake up between 0530-0700 without an alarm feeling refreshed on most days.

Re: Revenge bedtime procrastination

#73

Post by MengerSponge »

pawelduda wrote: post #23
MengerSponge wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The name is "being human", and it's probably not pathological: subjects kept in environments without external timekeepers (such as sunrise/sunset or clocks even) tend to keep a 25 hour circadian rhythm. Our bodies respond strongly to food and light and caffeine. Food when you wake up, and darkness as you're going to sleep. Remember that caffeine has a half-life of up to 9 hours, so if you're having trouble winding do…

Up to 9 hours? More like 4-6 AFAIK

Speculation: I'd expect a huge selection effect w.r.t. caffeine half-life. If your physiology yields a really long caffeine half-life, you won't drink as much because it keeps you from sleeping. These people will show up in studies as "not habitual users"

Not speculation *up to* 9 hours. Your Mileage Will Vary. My point was for people who aren't sleeping well, who should be extra aware of the stimulants they're taking and how long they can be active.

4-6 hours is also pretty long, which means there aren't very many lambdas between that afternoon cup and when you're trying to go to bed.

Re: Revenge bedtime procrastination

#74

Post by mindslight »

grecy wrote: post #50
mindslight wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure light has much to do with it, but that's a poor proposition at this time of year in the northern hemisphere. And frankly often times when it starts to get dark is when I actually start to feel fully awake. Of course the caffeine dependence I've built up lately doesn't help that. It's one hell of a high interest loan, and there's never a good time to pay it off.

I live in the Yukon, I’ve never felt better than when I go to bed with the sun, even in winter. When your body sleeps for 14+ hours, it’s telling you something

Well I wouldn't have guessed you are in one place!

That's completely different from my experience with myself. I can go to bed hours early, still fall asleep pretty quickly, and essentially just sleep through to the waking time of my latent schedule. Contrast with staying up an extra few hours will cause my waking time to move forward about 20-30 minutes. The main way I can move my schedule earlier is to make myself get up earlier, and then stop myself from taking a nap in the middle of the day.

That's of course modulo artificial light and being indoors. I haven't really tried to reproduce the effect of camping indoors, but I think the exposure, temperature change, and nature's activities contribute more than the light level. Indoors, I can generally continue sleeping just fine with direct sun on my eyelids.

Re: Revenge bedtime procrastination

#75

Post by koz_ »

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote: post #61

I have another name for that: Refusal to Concede. Before fall asleep, I still have a chance to do something great with my life. After, it's officially another wasted day.

Love this. How much suffering have I inflicted on myself from the sheer refusal to accept that forces other than my own will play a part in determining my destiny?

Re: Revenge bedtime procrastination

#76

Post by koz_ »

simmschi wrote: post #62

This behavior is probably pretty normal for anyone with a job, family and kids. I wouldn't associate it with 'revenge' though. For me 2 things help with the sleep deprivation, power naps and going to bed super early once in a while. Power naps started working for me nicely once I removed the stressful requirement of actually having to sleep. I just set my phone timer for 20 minutes and allow my mind to float away. Ju…

> Power naps started working for me nicely once I removed the stressful requirement of actually having to sleep.

This is a lesson I keep having to relearn, that rest without sleep is still beneficial. And of course there's always a reward for 'failing' to fall asleep - then I get to do something interesting!

Lately I've had some success in making a game of cultivating enjoyable, productive thoughts while I lie there unable to fall asleep, rather than indulging in the usual anxious worry / regret cycle.

Re: Revenge bedtime procrastination

#77

Post by wiseowise »

kd5bjo wrote: post #10

I take some issue with the "revenge" terminology, as it implies an unhealthy adversarial framing of the problem. Whenever I have had to deal with this myself, I've always chosen to view it as my subconscious prioritizing some kind of emotional need over my need for sleep. Viewed that way, the solution is obvious: Identify the emotional need that I've been neglecting and figure out how to satisfy it during the normal…

Lack of sleep is literally unhealthy.

Re: Revenge bedtime procrastination

#79

Post by wiseowise »

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote: post #61

I have another name for that: Refusal to Concede. Before fall asleep, I still have a chance to do something great with my life. After, it's officially another wasted day.

That’s not Refusal to Concede. That’s conceding completely. By taking time out of your sleep you’re officially conceding that you can’t fight forces that impose this onto you, so you’re going to take it onto “you time”.

Re: Revenge bedtime procrastination

#80

Post by zemvpferreira »

MengerSponge wrote: post #73
pawelduda wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Up to 9 hours? More like 4-6 AFAIK

Speculation: I'd expect a huge selection effect w.r.t. caffeine half-life. If your physiology yields a really long caffeine half-life, you won't drink as much because it keeps you from sleeping. These people will show up in studies as "not habitual users" Not speculation *up to* 9 hours. Your Mileage Will Vary. My point was for people who aren't sleeping well, who should be extra aware of the stimulants they're takin…

Revisit that expectation. When I sequenced my DNA years ago, I discovered that I'm a slow caffeine metaboliser (longer half-life than most) AND I'm in the population likely to drink the most coffee - I drink 5 cups per day currently, my grandpa drank 24 at his peak.
Post reply on HN