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OpenAI negotiations to reinstate Altman hit snag over board role

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Re: OpenAI negotiations to reinstate Altman hit snag over board role

#531

Post by s3p »

YeBanKo wrote: post #281
mrtksn wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Currently, it’s very unclear who operates under what motives. How much is it about ego? How much is it about money and how much is it due to intellectual positions? Maybe there’re are no heroes and maybe there’re no antiheroes? With the recent news about other investments and deals, the facade doesn’t seem to even resemble the OpenAI’s reality. I can’t wait to read the autobiography of involved parties.

Initially I thought it iwas about money. Now it seems to be about intellectual position: Sama wants to move fast and break things, Ilya does not. I don’t want my bank to replace customer support with LLM agent, that has access to internal APIs or LLM driving a medical decision just yet. As an example, couple years ago Crisis Text Line decided to sell data to a for profit spin off. Their justification was that data wa…

>I don’t want my bank to replace customer support with LLM agent, that has access to internal APIs

If it weren't for the mentality you are rallying against we wouldn't have ChatGPT. Google, Meta, everyone had these LLMs sitting around. OpenAI was the only company with the balls to release it to the public.

Re: OpenAI negotiations to reinstate Altman hit snag over board role

#532

Post by tempestn »

Aeolun wrote: post #316
cmdli wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While we don’t know the whole story, I don’t think Sam is innocent in this matter. It seems likely that this was a recurring disagreement, and perhaps this was simply a step too far where the board had to act. When you fire somebody, typically you don’t give them a heads up.

You don’t typically do it this quickly either.

What do you mean? Typically (always?) the firing itself is instantaneous. We have no idea how long the issues that led to the firing went on.

The communication was certainly very poor, and we don't know if the reasons were good, but I don't understand the speed complaint.

Re: OpenAI negotiations to reinstate Altman hit snag over board role

#533

Post by jacquesm »

pjc50 wrote: post #18
d_sem wrote: post #4

It's worth knowing the specific reasons why the board fired Sam before assessing the value of this news. Too much rumor and not enough evidence.

I'm surprised nobody's leaked the minutes. It all seems very amateurish. I had thought it was secret news of big misconduct, but instead it's sub-amongus plotting.

At this point in time I wouldn't be surprised if there weren't any minutes. I mean, come on: the four people that knew this was going to happen appear to be the only ones unprepared to deal with the fall-out. Missing minutes would be a footnote. And might be a sign that there was stuff in the 'original' minutes that couldn't be aired.

Re: OpenAI negotiations to reinstate Altman hit snag over board role

#534

Post by jacquesm »

skwirl wrote: post #53
d_sem wrote: post #4

It's worth knowing the specific reasons why the board fired Sam before assessing the value of this news. Too much rumor and not enough evidence.

It’s pretty clearly just a power play by four of the board members. Keep in mind Sam was part of the board and Greg Brockman was chairman of the board, so this was 4 board members ousting 2 other board members. OpenAI execs have already said it wasn’t for wrongdoing.

And the board just shrunk because of resignations and they wouldn't have had a majority in the past. It may have been one of those 'now or never' things.

Re: OpenAI negotiations to reinstate Altman hit snag over board role

#535

Post by jacquesm »

jkaplowitz wrote: post #227
skwirl wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s pretty clearly just a power play by four of the board members. Keep in mind Sam was part of the board and Greg Brockman was chairman of the board, so this was 4 board members ousting 2 other board members. OpenAI execs have already said it wasn’t for wrongdoing.

A majority of the board removing a minority of the board doesn’t seem like a power play to me. If the opposite were somehow achieved, e.g. through persuading one member of the majority to vote against their own interests, and using the chairman’s casting vote, that would be a power play. Also, the executive who said it wasn’t for malfeasance wasn’t himself on the board and appears to be trying to push for Altman’s re…

It is if the board had 9 members originally and only temporarily has 6 because of recent resignations. And that there is a proposal to expand the board on the table (because 6 is kind of thin for a company this size).

Re: OpenAI negotiations to reinstate Altman hit snag over board role

#536

Post by yalogin »

agnosticmantis wrote: post #394

Many are speculating that Sam Altman could just move on and create another OpenAI 2.0 because he could easily attract talent and investors. What this misses is all the regulatory capture that he’s been campaigning for. All the platforms have now closed their gardens. Authors and artists are much more vigilant about copyright etc. So it’s now a totally different game compared to 3 years ago because the data is not jus…

OpenAI has enough momentum and built enough moat that Sam Altman cannot replicate it. If he can actually replicate it and over take openai, then the business itself has no legs as it will be easily commoditized and any moat nullified in no time

Re: OpenAI negotiations to reinstate Altman hit snag over board role

#537

Post by staticautomatic »

eganist wrote: post #189
staticautomatic wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Contract wherein Musk pays all legal fees would be pretty trustworthy

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/02/24/musks-twitter-has-been-sued-... He's pretty bad at honoring contracts too

That’s my point. If/when he breaches he has to pay your fees for suing him. It’s a contingency lawyer’s dream.

Re: OpenAI negotiations to reinstate Altman hit snag over board role

#538

Post by qingcharles »

agnosticmantis wrote: post #394

Many are speculating that Sam Altman could just move on and create another OpenAI 2.0 because he could easily attract talent and investors. What this misses is all the regulatory capture that he’s been campaigning for. All the platforms have now closed their gardens. Authors and artists are much more vigilant about copyright etc. So it’s now a totally different game compared to 3 years ago because the data is not jus…

There are still huge vaults of untapped data.

I'm building a magazine encyclopedia and I would estimate that 99.9% of all magazines ever published are not available electronically. And that the content in magazines probably exceeds the content in books by an order of magnitude.

Re: OpenAI negotiations to reinstate Altman hit snag over board role

#539

Post by u3456ue »

felipellrocha wrote: post #492
yumraj wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems somewhat clear that at the end of the day there are two camps, Ilya and Sam. Sam is backed by investors who are looking for returns, and are not sure if Ilya will get them the same juicy 100X. So, if Sam comes back, then I’m pretty sure Ilya will go on his own. Whether he will focus on GPT or AGI or ?, is anyone’s guess, as is how many from OpenAI will follow him as everyone loves money. EDIT: Ilya should ha…

Who would invest in Ilya, though, when he very publicly tried to oust one of his oldest allies and failed? Trust can’t be built that way

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Re: OpenAI negotiations to reinstate Altman hit snag over board role

#540

Post by u3456ue »

ioulaum wrote: post #131
siva7 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ilya will do just fine after openai but there is zero chance that he will stay there as too many bridges are burned.

Just because he acted like a goofball, doesn't mean that everyone needs to. Plus, the other board members supported him, so decent blame to go around for this embarrassment.

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