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Gang crisis shaking Sweden

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Re: Gang crisis shaking Sweden

#251

Post by oblio »

debatem1 wrote: post #204
mupuff1234 wrote: post #69

[flagged]

You say you've identified specific types of immigrants that are incompatible with western liberal values. Who are they and how do you know?

Well, I think the key think to understand here is that it's not about genetics, despite what idiots keep harping on. We're all apes and a random individual transplanted in another group after birth will quickly start accumulating cultural traits from that group.

That said, culture is strong and it's even stronger in the internet era, especially for large groups of individuals. It's extremely hard to bend or break it.

To that point, there is a great book, Armies of Sand, that talks about a concept called the culturally regular individual.

And the book makes a decent point that the culturally regular person from a specific culture is probably a distant match to Western ideals. And that distant culture has quite bad results in many areas we would consider important for modern society: education, research, industrial output.

I'll let you research more on this topic.

Re: Gang crisis shaking Sweden

#252

Post by oblio »

alephnerd wrote: post #242
marginalia_nu wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's largely the result of an ideological deadlock, where legitimate logistical concerns about immigration and integration were lumped up with islamophobia and racism. Immigration was also seen as desirable in order to address the demographic crisis and low birth rates. This in turn had the ironic side-effect of cementing a sort of structural racism where all these immigrants showed up and were given at best estate h…

This needs to be upvoted. This is exactly what I've noticed across Europe. It feels like there's a glass ceiling outside of the arts and maybe politics. It doesn't feel like there are role models there like Satya Nadella, Jerry Yang, Alex Padilla, or Obama.

Have you looked at various leaders in places like France, the Netherlands, the UK, Germany?!?

Re: Gang crisis shaking Sweden

#253

Post by letrowekwel »

chrisbrandow wrote: post #115

Multi-ethnic democracy is a harder mode than mono-ethnic democracy, which is why most comparisons of the US failures at various social policies to Scandinavian countries have always bugged me. People don’t naturally feel as much allegiance to others who look and sound different. It takes time to overcome that.

I fully agree. Globally highly multicultural countries tend to be less stable on average, and it makes perfect sense if we consider basic human biology. We are tribal animals, it's hard to get around that.

Places like Sweden will have it even worse than the US, because migrants need to learn a fully new language to fully integrate, while most migrants to the US have at least some English skills to begin with.

Re: Gang crisis shaking Sweden

#255

Post by Lacerda69 »

someDevFella23 wrote: post #225
giraffe_lady wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

No we’re not at all. ironic how you can group like 30 countries together there and call them all racist Acknowledging that some cultures are not compatible with ours is not racist. Acknowledging that some that come to Europe do not value European values or way of life is not racist. I’m my experience with Europeans we can discuss this difference openly. In my experience I am weary with being honest with Americans

What cultures are you referring to?

There is no culture that is incompatible with the "european" culture (whatever the hell that is supposed to be - each euro country has a very different culture as you pointed out.)

Who comes to Europe that does not value European values? What are European values in your opinion?

Without you being clear on those things, I immediately think this is a thinly veiled xenophobic or racist dogwhistle.

Fellow European here, so would love to hear more about what you think European culture is.

Re: Gang crisis shaking Sweden

#257

Post by generic92034 »

Levitz wrote: post #75
mrkeen wrote: post #4

The title is all this site is willing to divulge to me. I just took the train into the city, had a burger & beer, and soon I'll train back home. I have zero worries about my safety. Anyway, the Right party pulled the balance of power from the Left and formed a centre/right coalition more than a year ago, because of all the bad people coming here and doing bad things. Weren't they going to fix this?

>Anyway, the Right party pulled the balance of power from the Left and formed a centre/right coalition more than a year ago, because of all the bad people coming here and doing bad things. Weren't they going to fix this? While I do think problems are way overblown, I don't know if you realize, these issues take generations to fix. If there is one legitimate scary bit about immigration is that it has VERY long-reachin…

> You can deport someone who just got there[..]

In most cases, you cannot. That is a large part of the issue.

Re: Gang crisis shaking Sweden

#258

Post by searealist »

screye wrote: post #246
whearyou wrote: post #27

I suspect anyone who wants to address the elephant in the room here will have to choose between accepting support from semi-fascist types or getting cancelled

Not sure why it is so controversial. * A region with instability, poverty and agrarian-tribo-rural-economy will imprint emergent traits onto the local culture. * Long ossified culture cannot be shed quickly even in the best of conditions * Agrarian tribal cultural practices are incompatible with hyper-liberal secular society. Integration is the only option. * Integration is hard. Even more so when it is optional, gen…

> The US also heavily vets its immigrants (unlike Sweden) and places the most oppressive integration-force-field second only to France. The air you breathe (Media), the carrot (The American dream) and the stick (the English language) all perfectly align to facilitate integration of the 2nd generation born into the US.

Most of America's immigration comes from the southern border and is completely unvetted. Your thoughts on integration also don't align with reality.

Edit: participating in this thread has resulted in the moderators of this site applying a rate limit to my account, so I can no longer reply.

Re: Gang crisis shaking Sweden

#259

Post by [deleted] »

Red_Leaves_Flyy wrote: post #117
arp242 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That charts paints a rather skewed picture by only focusing on firearms rather than murder overall. This is not a bad thing to highlight, but you should absolutely not confuse the two. Looking at [1], murder rate in Slovakia is comparable, and Hungary only slightly lower. Sweden isn't even near the top murder rate in the EU, and a number of other countries which accepted a large number of refugees have lower murder r…

There’s a concerning proclivity amongst xenophobes to use tortured statistics as means to unduly smear immigration. Even more concerning to see it take hold in highly upvoted comments here.

[deleted]

Re: Gang crisis shaking Sweden

#260

Post by zztop44 »

searealist wrote: post #248
zztop44 wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That chart shows a steady rate up to 2005, a decline from 2005-2012 and then a rise back to the previous level between 2012 and 2015, and steady at the previous level since then. The big spike in Syrian immigration started around 2015-2016. Based on these numbers, I’d say these two factors (immigration and murder) appear to be unrelated.

You can't truly say it happened in 2012 because there is noise in the graph. Even when the long term trends are flat it goes up and down. It definitely happened _around_ the mid 2010s. Here is Finland: https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/FIN/finland/murder-hom... And here is Norway: https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/NOR/norway/murder-homi... They do not see this rise.

I mean there’s just no rise at all after 2015. It just goes back to the long term average. If anything I’d be looking for what happened in 2005 to reduce the murder rate, that seems to be the real story of this graph. But realistically it’s probably all just noise.
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