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Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

philip.greenspun.com

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Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#421

Post by sh-run »

vladvasiliu wrote: post #257
sh-run wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My mouse and keyboard are both usb-c and I wasn't specifically looking for usb-c when I ordered either of them. Logitech MX Master 3 and Keychron Q1. They are both relatively high end devices, but I don't think it's hard to find usb-c devices. That said I do own lots of usb-a devices and will continue to own them for the foreseeable future. I would not purchase a laptop that was usb-c only today.

Is your MX Master the "mac" version? The reason I ask is because my 3s came with a USB-A dongle (which I prefer instead of Bluetooth). I've never used its charging cable, so I don't remember whether it was c-c or c-a. It also didn't have a C-A adapter provided, so if you want to use the dongle and only have usb-c ports available, you have to supply your own.

That's a good point, thanks for keeping me honest! Mine is not the Mac version.

USB-C to charge it, but dongle is A now that you mention it. It stays plugged into the back of my monitor.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#422

Post by aifooh7Keew6xoo »

necovek wrote: post #366
Aerbil313 wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rather, the cable became universal and the protocols diverged. But I’m fairly sure the situation will be fixed by the adoption of USB-PD as the ultimate power standard. As all the other standards (QC and else) are including it in their own. And the remaining HDMI devices will be phased out in a decade or so. Then you’ll need to only care about the wattage rating when charging devices. Seems like future for me.

What about bandwidth? There are 10Gbps, 20Gbps and 40Gbps cables, along with "wattage" (really, amperage/current). Both will continue to go up.

It's worth noting I suppose that newer USB power delivery standards are scaling voltage rather than amperage/current to deliver more power to the device.

The pins are specified for 1.25A each yielding 5A and I believe the 5A cable specification came at the same time as 20V with the 100W power delivery specification.

Every power increment since then has been a voltage rather than current increment.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#423

Post by halJordan »

imiric wrote: post #276
userbinator wrote: post #154

My experience has shown that USB C connectors are far more fragile than A, and every time I plug one in, for some reason the fit just feels vague and unsatisfying. An A plug, when you get it the right way, slides in solidly. As others have mentioned, C seems to have been designed to be the smallest possible, which makes sense for mobile devices, but not for a desktop and its peripherals.

Same here. I've experienced flaky connections with several USB-C ports, and sometimes the port itself gets dislodged. I've had devices RMA'd because of it. Nowadays I'm very careful when plugging in USB-C, doing my best to not pull on the cable, etc. It's overall a worse UX than with USB-A, and being reversible doesn't make up for it. Then you have the mess of protocols and standards that use the connector, where I n…

I don't think this is anymore than growing pains. Do you guys seriously misremember how terrible usb-a ports were? Now they're the gold standard apparently.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#424

Post by lxgr »

mavamaarten wrote: post #347
atoav wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the goto electronics guy I have swen broken USB A but not broken USB-C (yet). USB-C is sturdy, the weakness is either going to be the cable or the bonding of the copper with the PCB. Both is basically a matter of go much money the manufacturers are willing to spend.

My experiences differ. I've had plenty of USB-C devices of which the port becomes very loose after a while of normal use. I'm glad my current phone has wireless charging, not because of its convenience but because that way I don't wear out the USB-C port. USB-A is so simple, two holes and some leaf springs make for a satisfying clunk that doesn't wear out so quickly.

> I've had plenty of USB-C devices of which the port becomes very loose after a while of normal use.

I used to think the same thing, until I looked into how the USB-C plug actually operates: The movable spring parts are all in the cable, so if there's anything wearing out, it's usually that.

Clean the plug/port (lint collecting in the back of the port prevents a proper connection and makes the haptic feedback feel off), possibly swap out the cable if the springs in it are really worn out, and things are as good as new.

> some leaf springs make for a satisfying clunk that doesn't wear out so quickly.

But once they do, you have a broken USB port.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#425

Post by dangus »

dehrmann wrote: post #68
dangus wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, the introduction of USB-C will reach its 10 year anniversary in just a couple of years. If this were 2008 you would definitely call a parallel port, a 56k modem, or a floppy drive a relic even though you probably used one in 1998.

That's not a fair comparison considering how compatible USB-C is with USB 3.0 A/B.

Compatibility wasn’t what motivated people to switch away from the parallel port, 56k modem, nor the floppy disk.

Consider this exercise: The Nintendo Switch is the third best-selling console of all time. Walk me through how you would design it if the only port was USB-A.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#426

Post by hotnfresh »

boopmaster wrote: post #361
hotnfresh wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I regularly wish my work MacBook Pro had a single A port. I understand my personal Air not having one—it’s lacking all ports but C—but it’s the one thing preventing my MBP from being as always-useful-entirely-on-its-own as the 2014 Pro I used to have.

I carry a usb a to c cable in my “go bag” to work. It’s a 3” cable with some flex to it. Weighs nothing. They are in the range of $10 Put in an expense report if IT doesn’t have one for you?

Sure, but it still makes the pro slightly worse than it could be. One of the things that quickly convinced me I’d been computing wrong, the first time I was issued a MBP, was that I could just pick it up and walk off and be able to work for hours. No need to grab the power brick or an extra battery (did I remember to charge it?) in case I was away more than two hours, no need to take a mouse, since the trackpad was actually a viable input device beyond a few painful minutes. Enough ports I’d almost certainly not need anything else (I wasn’t doing network tech stuff anymore, so absent Ethernet didn’t hurt me)

The windows machines at work have A ports (and C). They have a single notable leg up in the MBPs, now, as far as pick-up-and-go capability. Of course they still lag in other areas, but it’s gone from pure win to “most of it’s better… except that one thing”.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#427

Post by hotnfresh »

Gigachad wrote: post #141
hotnfresh wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The computer accessories shelves at e.g. Target are still dominated by A. Two years after this article.

Because wired computer accessories are almost exclusively used by desktop users which all have USB A. Go look at phone charging cables which you might want to plug in to your laptop and see that C-C is more common than C-A now.

TFA is about desktop computers.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#428

Post by deafpolygon »

USB-C ain't all that great.

Though I say this, I hope that we all move forward to USB-C soon.

First of all, most of us who use PCs will use them for a very long time. A PC put together will often last someone a full decade. The specification was barely published and finalized less than 10 years ago (August 2014)!

USB 3.1 (still using the USB-A port) was introduced around the same time! USB-C had not hit widespread adoption until roughly 6 years ago - and the vast majority of computers that are in use today are from 5 years ago.

Secondly, USB-C cables are still relatively expensive. Many cables don't adhere to the standard; many can only deliver data and not power, while other still can do power delivery but not data.

Thirdly, USB-C ports may be the shiny new kind of port, but I find them to be incredibly brittle on motherboards and laptops. USB-A ports tend to be built like a tank, while USB-C ones tend to break if you push it in too far. Even though they're supposed to be more resilient, but somehow they aren't.

Finally, there's still a bunch of stuff that uses USB-A.. no one wants to use a bunch of dongles with their PC.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#429

Post by arcticbull »

microtonal wrote: post #251
arcticbull wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is naive. The chip hardware support to have 2 extra USB A ports is nothing compared to having two extra USB C/Thunderbolt ports and USB C/Thunderbolt is overkill for many situations. Type C doesn't require anything more than USB 2.0 with the same signals routed out. There's no difference whatsoever. Type C is just a connector. Yes there will be more chip support if you decide to make the connector more fully-f…

Yeah, but having Type-C ports with different capabilities is wildly confusing to users. Imagine that Apple had mixed Type-C ports. Imagine the number of support calls from people that says 'doesn't work' when they try to plug their Studio Display in an USB 2.0 Type-C port. Or when the Studio Display works because they plugged it into a port with USB3 and DP-Alt, because the downstream hub doesn't work, because you ne…

> Imagine that Apple had mixed Type-C ports.

They actually do :) they don't all have the same capabilities. Some are Thunderbolt, some aren't.

USB4 goes some way to addressing this concern though, since anything marked USB4 has to be fully-functional.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#430

Post by diffeomorphism »

onetimeuse92304 wrote: post #410
diffeomorphism wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is your opinion on magnetic usb c adapters? For about 10€ you get 140W charging and 40Gbps. Compared to magsafe it is not recessed (though that has not been an issue in my experience), but on the plus side it also does data, video and is universal . Currently using the same type of adapter for my laptop, phone and tablet with the ends on various chargers and docking stations.

I had a number of them from two or three different brands. They had tendency to cause sparking and I lost at least one phone due to it. The phone was fine but it lost ability to be charged through the USB port. And because it did not have wireless charging, when the battery ran out it became an expensive brick.

Yikes. Haven't had an issue yet with the ones I use. Good to know.
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