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Ask HN: I can't find a job. What do I do?

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Ask HN: I can't find a job. What do I do?

#1
I'm a software engineer working at a startup. This was my first job that I got 3 years after I dropped out of college and I have been working here for three and a half years. I like the work and I am excellent at it. But I have learnt everything that I know about programming on the job and that has been stagnant for a while now. I tried looking for a new job and in the last 6 months I've applied for a hundred jobs but haven't gotten one interview call. The best I've gotten is a link to an online leetcode-style test and I suck at those too. How do I make my skills visible? Some info about me. I'm 27 years old, from India and I don't have a bachelor degree (had to drop out due to health issues). The lack of bachelor's degree is the biggest blocker I'm dealing with. Even the few contacts that I have right now say that my CV will not even be considered for even an entry level role at their companies because of that. My manager at my current job has been becoming more and more toxic. Calling me to ask why I'm taking a paid leave, pinging me multiple times a day for updates and expecting me to be on call outside of work hours (someone was fired recently and this was one of the reasons). I just need some advice from people who hire developers. What can I do that would make you look past my lack of educational qualifications?

Re: Ask HN: I can't find a job. What do I do?

#2
I'm from the US and I also don't have a degree. I think it's true that does make it harder.

I have avoided applying for traditional jobs for the last 10-15 years and instead focused on "freelance" (mainly Upwork). For several reasons: because it was easier to get remote work that way, because I wanted to make sure I had time to work on my own startups, to try to avoid office politics, and because it was actually easier to get that type of work instead of "real" jobs.

Basically, I "outsourced myself".

The reality for me has been a pretty poor income. Although there have been a few times where I managed to get something like a business going for a short time. And I have not been without work for any significant amount of time.

Anyway, even though it also can be brutal to find work and you have to watch out for awful clients which are plentiful, Upwork (and relatively few other sites/apps) now has a virtual monopoly on online freelance work. At least for any project which has significant budget constraints.

You can go on there and find something that looks like a spec and just pretend they hired you. Build it out and put it in your GitHub and developer profile. Keep doing that for some months and eventually you can build up some projects in some areas and be confident that you can apply for them and they will see related work in your profile.

Another aspect of this is networking. That doesn't come naturally to me and I have had limited success. But about 1.5-2 years ago I did manage to get myself accepted into a particular community and niche where I had a web application that was popular with users in that niche.

From that web application and through referrals in that community, I managed to get away from Upwork for awhile and pick up contracts directly through Discord.

I think the key there was being embedded in that specific community with software that was used for that specific niche application inside of that community.

So you could try that. Literally find some activity or interest group that seems interesting to you and just get absorbed into it to the point where you are figuring out how to make tools that you know for sure will help people in that community do that specific task. Easier said than done. But doable.

Re: Ask HN: I can't find a job. What do I do?

#3
> I just need some advice from people who hire developers. What can I do that would make you look past my lack of educational qualifications?

The environment has changed since the zero interest rate era ended and now with AI quite frankly I'm afraid it will only get even worse which means less developers would need to be hired. Even if you get an interview, it is the Leetcode and algorithms pseudo IQ test bullshit that will be used to filter anyone out.

> How do I make my skills visible?

If I were you, I'd create a bunch personal side-projects and do some networking. As long as you have something to show, it is worth more than a 'degree'. Even better if it profitable and pays the bills.

You never know if you don't try. You might even spin it out into a business which you will be hiring developers yourself.

Re: Ask HN: I can't find a job. What do I do?

#4
You say you're from India but don't say where you're at now. Since you used term CV instead of resume, maybe still in India or maybe a European country? If the job market where you're at is largely expecting a University degree regardless of experience level then I would say at 27 go back and get your University degree. It is not a step backwards to get the University degree it will teach you valuable things that you will never learn from experience alone. The theory about why things are done the way they are is an important thing to develop future skills in future problem solving.

Your other option would be to change job markets to where they don't prioritize the University degree after you've had some job experience. That being said 3 years of job experience is not a replacement for a 4 University degree. Even in the United States where it is still possible to work your way into positions without the University degree that is simply not enough experience to be considered. At dropping out of college and 3 years of experience you would still be looking at a non-software engineer entry level position. You would be doing support or systems administration and from there you could demonstrate the skills to move into a software engineering position.

Some other red flags are you say this is your first job you've had and you got it 3 years after you dropped out of University. Health, family, life situations do come up that cause you to take this kind of break in these kind of gaps but employers don't care. As people they may understand these things happen but as an employer looking for an employee they don't care. That's why I really think overall your best option return to University complete the degree and then with the degree your prior experience will matter and that Gap will go away.

Re: Ask HN: I can't find a job. What do I do?

#5
Leetcode is the Equalizer that makes having a degree less relevant in the field. Without a degree it is exactly the lever you're looking for for getting jobs. It might be a lot of effort, but it is a reasonable expectation for getting a job in SE.

The other two things that can really make a difference are either having good personal projects uploaded on GitHub, or contributing to relevant open source projects.

As a disclaimer, I'm not senior/experienced enough myself to be much involved in hiring.

Re: Ask HN: I can't find a job. What do I do?

#8
Lots of other advice here but just wanted to add one piece: when you do get interviews, beware of anything that sounds too negative about your current (or past) employer. Even though the fact that you're looking for work basically implies that you are unsatisfied, if your tone or language is negative it will give the impression that you are a negative person.

So, when you do get that interview, just say that the opportunities for learning new things are your current job are limited, or something else that is true but not too negative-sounding. I have seen candidates who trash talk their current or former employer in an interview get rejected for that reason, because immediately people wonder, "will they talk like that about us if they get this job?"

Also, keep in mind that the problem is not you, it's that the programmer job market is saturated with the Big Tech layoffs from earlier in the year, so keep your self-esteem up and your skills sharp and in time things will turn around.

Re: Ask HN: I can't find a job. What do I do?

#9
You may want to try going the self-employed/freelancer route. Just try to get at least one paying side job where you can charge a reasonable hourly rate and take it from there. If it doesn't work out you can fall back on what you have and if it does then you can try to expand it. Relatively little risk, and if it works you're free from the gatekeeping because in my experience for self-employed people credentials matter a lot less than work experience. Best of luck!
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