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Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

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Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#261

Post by nathias »

hurryer wrote: post #199
arcticbull wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly enough, they're specced the opposite way. > Standard USB has a minimum rated lifetime of 1,500 cycles of insertion and removal, the Mini-USB receptacle increased this to 5,000 cycles, and the newer Micro-USB and USB-C receptacles are both designed for a minimum rated lifetime of 10,000 cycles of insertion and removal. [1] > To accomplish this, a locking device was added and the leaf-spring was moved fro…

Minimum is just that, minimum. Have you ever seen a broken standard USB port or connector? Me not once in my entire life, unlike micro-USB or USB-C.

you're lucky usb-c ports are failing constantly

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#262

Post by Max-q »

aslilac wrote: post #3

calling USB A “legacy” and a “relic” is so misplaced. we all still own USB A devices. I challenge the author to go find a wired keyboard or mouse that comes with a USB C plug. it’s possible, but not easy. the thing is, we could just have both! this isn’t some winner/loser scenario. the real question should be why these computers with enough bandwidth for 11+ connectors don’t at least split the difference with 6/5 of…

> I challenge the author to go find a wired keyboard or mouse that comes with a USB C plug.

Not the author, but all my Logitech keyboards have USB-C.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#263

Post by vladvasiliu »

Retr0id wrote: post #109
abhinavk wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weirdly, the port on a cheap mechanical keyboard I have is USB-C but the cable they packaged is USB-C -> USB-A instead. They likely didn't package C->C because of the chicken and egg problem. Not everyone has enough Type-C ports.

Type-C hubs are annoyingly expensive, because they all assume you want all the USB 3.x speed and/or power delivery bells and whistles - but for connecting simple peripherals none of that is necessary. I built my own based on a USB 2.0 hub IC, but I never got around to publishing the design files. I should get on that! Even building a single prototype unit cost me about the same as a single off-the-shelf type-C hub, b…

> Type-C hubs are annoyingly expensive, because they all assume you want all the USB 3.x speed and/or power delivery bells and whistles - but for connecting simple peripherals none of that is necessary.

I've also noticed there are next to no usb-c hubs, apart from "docks" that usually do many more things are bigger. But, don't they have to provide the specced power to be "compliant"?

What I find annoying is that even "higher end" docks don't have many usb-c ports. I'm typing this through a HP dock that has a big-ass power adaptor and is quite big and heavy itself (has a huge heatsink), yet it still provides only one usb-c port. At least it seems to implement PD (I can charge a laptop through the downstream port), even though I think it only provides 15W.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#264

Post by makach »

userbinator wrote: post #154

My experience has shown that USB C connectors are far more fragile than A, and every time I plug one in, for some reason the fit just feels vague and unsatisfying. An A plug, when you get it the right way, slides in solidly. As others have mentioned, C seems to have been designed to be the smallest possible, which makes sense for mobile devices, but not for a desktop and its peripherals.

that is a very good observation and I agree. I guess that can be fixed, and high quality c-connectors will provide this sensation, just look at the iphone lightning connector which IMO provides something similar.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#265

Post by 3np »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #170
3np wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. But if you want to actually have two m.2 drives to either mirror your root filesystem or use one as a secondary? It gets tangly quickly. inb4: CPUs as well as commonly used chipsets have enough lanes, it's not that.

It sounds like you're at the intersection of "tiny", "multiple network ports", "multiple M.2 drives", and "dedicated gpu". I wouldn't be surprised if that's a rare combination.

Could do without the dGPU given APUs. I don't think the rest of that intersection is rare at all for workstations and desktops.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#266

Post by vladvasiliu »

cwbriscoe wrote: post #160
aslilac wrote: post #3

calling USB A “legacy” and a “relic” is so misplaced. we all still own USB A devices. I challenge the author to go find a wired keyboard or mouse that comes with a USB C plug. it’s possible, but not easy. the thing is, we could just have both! this isn’t some winner/loser scenario. the real question should be why these computers with enough bandwidth for 11+ connectors don’t at least split the difference with 6/5 of…

Both my wireless keyboard and mouse are USB-C. I use the C connection for charging them.

My wireless mouse has a usb-c port for charging only (doesn't have a wired mode). But its dongle is usb-a only and no adapter was provided. It's a rather recent and "high-end" model, too: an mx master 3s.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#267

Post by Gareth321 »

shortcake27 wrote: post #248
sbuk wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience, it's entirely manufacturer-dependent. Comparing Apple, Dell and Lenovo, the Dell and the Apple machines (MacBook Pros and XPS 13) have had no problems. Both feel as good as the day they were purchased. The Lenovo (ThinkPad P14s/x280) had connectors falling out after around six months - which is particularly annoying given that they charge over USB C. Overall, I've been massively disappointed by the…

I once worked in an office where virtually everyone (30ish people) had failed USB-C ports on their MacBooks. This was around 2017. I don’t know if Apple fixed this, out of fear I baby the ports on my 2018 MBP, and they still click like brand new. So I do know that when treated with extreme care they will last. Just feels silly though. I’m definitely one of the few people lamenting Apple’s forced hand in moving to C o…

Apple had the opportunity to make Lightning a standard. They could have dropped the royalties and enabled USB3/4 speeds on all their devices YEARS ago. They did neither and, predictably, an open standard came along and took over.

I should add that’s it’s not a perfect connector. Every lightening cable I’ve ever owned has eventually developed corrosion on the male connector, leading to spotty connection with the device. I’ve never had that problem with USB-A or C. Probably because the pins aren’t exposed, so aren’t ever touched by my sweaty/oily/acid fingers. That said, it’s usually a quick fix with some rubbing alcohol.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#268

Post by mnsc »

holoduke wrote: post #225
arcticbull wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I surely have. Any even semi-public USB power socket is hanging on by a thread, some of them have the inside paddles snapped off entirely. I haven't seen a Type C one in such a state yet, but I eagerly await it.

The problem with usb c (but also mini and micro) is the weak connector on the device itself. The way its connected to the board is way weaker than a large usb a connector on a motherboard. Accidentally pullen a keyboard while attached will for sure destroy a usb c port. A usb a most likely survive.

Yup, bricked a old gopro with a mini connector by tearing it off the circuitboard. Didn't think that could happen so I wasn't particularly careful but it's physics, small things break easier.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#269

Post by userbinator »

matsemann wrote: post #254
userbinator wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

we had test jigs for testing connectors to failure[...] 25,000 insertions That's likely to be the exact reason why the reliability specs don't line up with reality: your test jigs are almost certainly going to be inserting the plugs directly with exact precision, whereas in practice people are going to just "jam it in" and apply significant side-loads as well as misalignment and levering forces. It's not hard to desi…

> your test jigs are almost certainly Why assume that? Why not be humble and just ask the person with first hand knowledge instead of basically attacking their setup based on guessing?

Because you can search for what connector testing machines look like, and they all look like they'll just destroy the connector if it isn't aligned correctly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdIdEbr9wQQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GkDnQlesUM

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#270

Post by cbzbc »

Gareth321 wrote: post #253
hurryer wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Minimum is just that, minimum. Have you ever seen a broken standard USB port or connector? Me not once in my entire life, unlike micro-USB or USB-C.

Yeah but 10,000 connections is WAY past any reasonable motherboard lifespan. Meaning the minimum for USB-C is ridiculously over-engineered for any motherboard.

As the user above points out, this is ideal insertions, and not necessarily representative of the kinds of situations it is likely to encounter.
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