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Update on the OpenAI drama: Altman and the board had till 5pm to reach a truce

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Re: Update on the OpenAI drama: Altman and the board had till 5pm to reach a truce

#131

Post by yumraj »

John7149 wrote: post #126
yumraj wrote: post #117

Why would the board resign, makes no sense. Sam was a hired CEO, board is within its power to fire him. I would imagine that Ilya is a more valuable person than Sam.

Microsoft owns near half of OpenAI. Meanwhile OpenAI staff pretty much consider Altman as their chieftain. If Altman return, the board has to resign. If Altman going out, near entire OpenAI staff (especially the key personnel) will follow Altman. Then board still has to resign because OpenAI collapse internally. So either way, the board has to resign...difference just when. Board did bad moves. Obviously a few factio…

> Microsoft owns near half of OpenAI.

I don't believe this is true, especially given OpenAI's weird corporate structure with non-profit and for-profit entities. I could be wrong.

> Meanwhile OpenAI staff pretty much consider Altman as their chieftain....

> If Altman going out, near entire OpenAI staff (especially the key personnel) will follow Altman.

Again, not saying you're wrong since I have no first hand info. But do you have first hand info on this, or is this speculation based on various reports. Genuinely curious..

Re: Update on the OpenAI drama: Altman and the board had till 5pm to reach a truce

#132

Post by gumballindie »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #65
wredue wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A not insignificant portion of HN commenters believe AGI is close. This community is so split on this that it’s virtually random as to whether or not you’ll be downvoted for saying that a specialized search engine is not likely to achieve AGI.

5 years ago large parts of this same community would sneer at you and call you a luddite for suggesting that fully-self-driving claims were overly optimistic. People were saying things like trucking was a dead profession within a handful of years, etc. They were wrong as hell, clearly. Point being: Moore's law is for transistors, not just any tech, and not everything in tech gets on an exponential growth/improvement…

Precisely this and precisely trucks and self driving.

This community has a strong tendency for cult following and tunnel vision. Seems like contrarian thinking, the hacker mindset, and as of recently entrepreneurship are not particularly popular anymore. Instead we have people demanding ip theft and the destruction of entire industries just to satisfy a cult leader’s vision. A little disappointing particularly since it damages and otherwise interesting technology such as ai, and it pushes the hundreds of legitimate ml startups away.

Re: Update on the OpenAI drama: Altman and the board had till 5pm to reach a truce

#133

Post by lsh123 »

gkoberger wrote: post #38
janejeon wrote: post #36

\

It's a misquote. It's almost a direct quote from The Verge, except it misses the most important line ("but has since waffled") Here's the full quote: "A source close to Altman says the board had agreed in principle to resign and to allow Altman and Brockman to return, but has since waffled — missing a key 5PM PT deadline by which many OpenAI staffers were set to resign. If Altman decides to leave and start a new comp…

No, the most important really is "A source close to Altman”

Re: Update on the OpenAI drama: Altman and the board had till 5pm to reach a truce

#134

Post by lokar »

naveen99 wrote: post #129
dkjaudyeqooe wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As everyone else has mentioned, there is no such thing in CA, but you can sue if employees reveal company secrets to their new employer. OpenAI would probably have a strong case if they suddenly released a copycat product soon after leaving.

These type of lawsuits are pretty rare though. for example, openai hasn’t sued anthropic founders. Google didn’t sue ilya or anyone else who left google brain to launch ai companies. The only one I have heard of is the self driving guy who went to Uber from gooogle ?

They had proof the Uber guy took hw designs and source code

Re: Update on the OpenAI drama: Altman and the board had till 5pm to reach a truce

#135

Post by dragonwriter »

naveen99 wrote: post #129
dkjaudyeqooe wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As everyone else has mentioned, there is no such thing in CA, but you can sue if employees reveal company secrets to their new employer. OpenAI would probably have a strong case if they suddenly released a copycat product soon after leaving.

These type of lawsuits are pretty rare though. for example, openai hasn’t sued anthropic founders. Google didn’t sue ilya or anyone else who left google brain to launch ai companies. The only one I have heard of is the self driving guy who went to Uber from gooogle ?

> . Google didn’t sue ilya or anyone else who left google brain to launch ai companies.

Is there any reason to think Ilya used Google technologies (other than what was publicly published without any legal protection against use that Google just did a poor job productizing) after leaving?

Re: Update on the OpenAI drama: Altman and the board had till 5pm to reach a truce

#136

Post by compsciphd »

John7149 wrote: post #126
yumraj wrote: post #117

Why would the board resign, makes no sense. Sam was a hired CEO, board is within its power to fire him. I would imagine that Ilya is a more valuable person than Sam.

Microsoft owns near half of OpenAI. Meanwhile OpenAI staff pretty much consider Altman as their chieftain. If Altman return, the board has to resign. If Altman going out, near entire OpenAI staff (especially the key personnel) will follow Altman. Then board still has to resign because OpenAI collapse internally. So either way, the board has to resign...difference just when. Board did bad moves. Obviously a few factio…

I'm wondering how the employees can move to a company doing essentially the exact same thing without any violation of privileged information from their old jobs.

The only thing I can assume is that there's nothing particularly proprietary about anything OpenAI has done, its just an issue of scale. But if that's the case, it would make them not that valuable, as anyone willing to invest enough to reach that same scale using the same non proprietary techniques would be just as good.

or am I missing something?

Re: Update on the OpenAI drama: Altman and the board had till 5pm to reach a truce

#137

Post by naveen99 »

dragonwriter wrote: post #135
naveen99 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These type of lawsuits are pretty rare though. for example, openai hasn’t sued anthropic founders. Google didn’t sue ilya or anyone else who left google brain to launch ai companies. The only one I have heard of is the self driving guy who went to Uber from gooogle ?

> . Google didn’t sue ilya or anyone else who left google brain to launch ai companies. Is there any reason to think Ilya used Google technologies (other than what was publicly published without any legal protection against use that Google just did a poor job productizing) after leaving?

I am not saying they should have, just noting that it’s not common.

Re: Update on the OpenAI drama: Altman and the board had till 5pm to reach a truce

#138

Post by pitched »

compsciphd wrote: post #136
John7149 wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft owns near half of OpenAI. Meanwhile OpenAI staff pretty much consider Altman as their chieftain. If Altman return, the board has to resign. If Altman going out, near entire OpenAI staff (especially the key personnel) will follow Altman. Then board still has to resign because OpenAI collapse internally. So either way, the board has to resign...difference just when. Board did bad moves. Obviously a few factio…

I'm wondering how the employees can move to a company doing essentially the exact same thing without any violation of privileged information from their old jobs. The only thing I can assume is that there's nothing particularly proprietary about anything OpenAI has done, its just an issue of scale. But if that's the case, it would make them not that valuable, as anyone willing to invest enough to reach that same scale…

You can get a local chatbot running in seconds with this tool: https://github.com/jmorganca/ollama

None of the open models available to these local tools benchmark as well as the closed OpenAI model but the benchmarks are weird. In my own poking around, some models are definitely less coherent or more detailed for some specific prompts but it’s mostly the same.

Re: Update on the OpenAI drama: Altman and the board had till 5pm to reach a truce

#139

Post by kodisha »

wilg wrote: post #35
MattGaiser wrote: post #21

I’d love to read the minutes of the last few board meetings as this saga has been quite absurd.

Probably don’t even have minutes

Hey, there is like 30+ bots out there that do transcriptions of the meeting, who knows, maybe they had one.

Re: Update on the OpenAI drama: Altman and the board had till 5pm to reach a truce

#140

Post by cmrdporcupine »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #82
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

5 years ago large parts of this same community would sneer at you and call you a luddite for suggesting that fully-self-driving claims were overly optimistic. People were saying things like trucking was a dead profession within a handful of years, etc. They were wrong as hell, clearly. Point being: Moore's law is for transistors, not just any tech, and not everything in tech gets on an exponential growth/improvement…

"Wrong as hell" seems like a severe overstatement. Even after the Cruise fiasco, self-driving cars with no human in the driver's seat are commercially available in three major US cities. There were quite a lot of overly optimistic claims about the speed of market penetration, but the technology is real.

Commercially available, but not viable. I read an article the other day that speculated Waymo was losing $1000 for every cab ride or something crazy like that.

And commercially available, but only in "easy" places with mild climate and easy roads. When I see them effortlessly driving around here in 4" of fresh snow with no visible lane markings and cars sliding all over the place, I'll be impressed.

I just got back from Scottsdale, AZ and saw a few Waymo taxis around (crossed the street in front of one), but, like... that's easy... wide, even surfaced roads, no real weather. Barely a pedestrian or cyclist in sight.

And, finally, none of this looks anywhere like the predictions from 5, 6, 7 years ago. We're almost a decade on from when I first started hearing people saying things like "no point in becoming a truck driver, that's a dead career now that trucks will be automated" and, yeah... that was wrong as hell.

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