Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

philip.greenspun.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 511 posts

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#71

Post by TheRealPomax »

cesarb wrote: post #69
makeitdouble wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I challenge the author to go find a wired keyboard or mouse that comes with a USB C plug.. I can confirm, it's a journey. It's the same kind of journey than finding a hair trimmer that charges on USB C. I see it more as makers being complacent and not giving a fuck though. There's no technical reasons for those to be USB A, and the USB C ones work great. So yes USB A will be there for a while, and more often than n…

> There's no technical reasons for those to be USB A, and the USB C ones work great. There's a good technical reason for keyboards and mice to still be USB A: adapters from USB A socket to USB C plug are allowed by the standard, but adapters from USB C socket to USB A plug are forbidden (because they would, together with a common USB C cable, allow creating the forbidden USB A to USB A cable). This means that USB A k…

looks at his MIDI controller that comes with a USB-C female to USB-A male converter plug

You don't say...

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#72

Post by dehrmann »

The main benefits vs USB 3.0 A jacks is it can also carry video and power. This makes a lot of sense for laptops, but much less for desktops. Thunderbolt is its own thing, and these wouldn't be thunderbolt ports. That leaves speed, but there aren't many applications for more than 10 Gbps. You're either going to use PCIe or Thunderbolt.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#73

Post by crote »

gautamcgoel wrote: post #47

I might be the minority here but I prefer USB-A. The connector feels more robust and I don't worry about damaging it. My keyboard, mouse, webcam, flash drives, etc. all use USB-A. A disadvantage of USB-C is that lint can get in the port and prevent a proper connection (this happens on my phone all the time). I believe that USB-A will be with us for a long time; the wisest thing at this point is to make sure that the…

I have mixed feelings about it. Technologically I definitely prefer USB-C, and the "reversible cable" and "plug fits either way" parts are really neat.

However, they do indeed feel quite a lot more fragile. USB-A is an absolute tank, and I regularly just haphazardly plug it in without paying much attention to it, knowing that I'm not going to damage it. With USB-C I'm always a bit careful about not putting too much strain on the connector - especially as most connectors are rather long and act like a lever!

I can totally see myself breaking off USB-C ports because I forget to unplug the cable to my docking station. With USB-A, I pretty much expect to break the cable first.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#74

Post by cesarb »

gweinberg wrote: post #37
aslilac wrote: post #3

calling USB A “legacy” and a “relic” is so misplaced. we all still own USB A devices. I challenge the author to go find a wired keyboard or mouse that comes with a USB C plug. it’s possible, but not easy. the thing is, we could just have both! this isn’t some winner/loser scenario. the real question should be why these computers with enough bandwidth for 11+ connectors don’t at least split the difference with 6/5 of…

Maybe it's a chicken and egg thing, but why do we still have usb-a keyboards and mice and thumb drives? wouldn't it make more sense for them all to be usb-c?

Having them be USB C would mean they could only be used on USB C ports (adapters from USB C socket to USB A plug are forbidden by the USB standard, because they would allow creating the forbidden USB A to USB A cable), while having them be USB A allows them to be used on both USB A ports and (with a simple passive adapter) USB C ports.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#75

Post by 3np »

USB-C aside, I find that *TX motherboard manufacturers have been too unimaginative when it comes to I/O and haven't evolved for the past ~10y to serve growing demand in new and evolving segments.

My pet-peeve: If you want more than a single NIC in an AMD-based small form factor, your options are extremely limited. Even if you're open for importing and paying >$300 for just the board or going a couple of generations back. Meanwhile, you have a plethora of options in the exploding segment of NUC-like mini-PCs. There's almost nothing on the market in-between firmware-roulette Chinese mini-PCs and effectively ATX-sized breakout-rigs. Asrock RACK (with scarce availability) is the only exception I can think of over the past 5y. I don't get it.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#76

Post by TheRealPomax »

A lot of devices don't need what USB-C offers: USB-A is a concurrent, not legacy, standard. You want USB-C for high-power, high-transfer-speed connections. An incredible number of peripherals don't need either of those things, connecting them with USB-C just makes no sense.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#77

Post by eurleif »

cesarb wrote: post #69
makeitdouble wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I challenge the author to go find a wired keyboard or mouse that comes with a USB C plug.. I can confirm, it's a journey. It's the same kind of journey than finding a hair trimmer that charges on USB C. I see it more as makers being complacent and not giving a fuck though. There's no technical reasons for those to be USB A, and the USB C ones work great. So yes USB A will be there for a while, and more often than n…

> There's no technical reasons for those to be USB A, and the USB C ones work great. There's a good technical reason for keyboards and mice to still be USB A: adapters from USB A socket to USB C plug are allowed by the standard, but adapters from USB C socket to USB A plug are forbidden (because they would, together with a common USB C cable, allow creating the forbidden USB A to USB A cable). This means that USB A k…

>because they would, together with a common USB C cable, allow creating the forbidden USB A to USB A cable

Not hard to do this regardless. Amazon sells A-to-A cables[0]; and Unicomp keyboards for example have a USB-A port in the back, and connect to PCs with a bundled A-to-A cable. Seems like preventing this is a lost cause.

[0] https://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-1-5ft-24AWG-Cable-Plated/dp...

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#79

Post by gattis »

any device that doesnt need a 20gbps or higher link is better off connected to your motherboard via a usb-a to usb-c cable. the "a" connector has not been deprecated. in some ways it is the superior connector, higher mating cycles, less fragile, less likely to get ripped loose, much more torque required to bend, and so on. the "c" connector is more useful on the opposite end where you will be plugging in and out more frequently.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#80

Post by lxgr »

gattis wrote: post #79

any device that doesnt need a 20gbps or higher link is better off connected to your motherboard via a usb-a to usb-c cable. the "a" connector has not been deprecated. in some ways it is the superior connector, higher mating cycles, less fragile, less likely to get ripped loose, much more torque required to bend, and so on. the "c" connector is more useful on the opposite end where you will be plugging in and out more…

> higher mating cycles

It’s the other way around.

USB-C sockets are much more robust than their A counterparts, since the spring is in the plug for C, as opposed to in the socket for A.

Post reply on HN