Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

philip.greenspun.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 511 posts

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#61

Post by crote »

Two reasons:

1. USB-C is more technically complicated, especially when you want to create a host, and especially when you want to do anything faster than USB 2 speeds. Fully-integrated chips for USB-C are still quite rare, so you have to hook up a handful of different not-exactly-cheap chips to add a USB-C port. On the other hand, USB-A is pretty trivial and can be added at basically zero cost.

2. There's still a wide USB-A ecosystem out there. Having to use adapters suuuucks, so people want to have at least some USB-A ports in their system. Moreover, a lot of more-trivial peripherals feature USB-C ports rather than pigtails, so you can easily connect them to USB-A ports with A-to-C cables.

The balance will slowly shift towards USB-C, but it's not exactly surprising that USB-A is still quite common.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#62

Post by rootusrootus »

upon_drumhead wrote: post #18
aslilac wrote: post #3

calling USB A “legacy” and a “relic” is so misplaced. we all still own USB A devices. I challenge the author to go find a wired keyboard or mouse that comes with a USB C plug. it’s possible, but not easy. the thing is, we could just have both! this isn’t some winner/loser scenario. the real question should be why these computers with enough bandwidth for 11+ connectors don’t at least split the difference with 6/5 of…

http://codekeyboards.com are currently USB C as are https://www.wasdkeyboards.com

That is fairly meaningless, though. My six year old CODE keyboard could be USB-C today if I wanted, it uses a detachable USB cable. They wouldn't even need to make any changes to the keyboard other than including a different cable.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#63

Post by crote »

upon_drumhead wrote: post #18
aslilac wrote: post #3

calling USB A “legacy” and a “relic” is so misplaced. we all still own USB A devices. I challenge the author to go find a wired keyboard or mouse that comes with a USB C plug. it’s possible, but not easy. the thing is, we could just have both! this isn’t some winner/loser scenario. the real question should be why these computers with enough bandwidth for 11+ connectors don’t at least split the difference with 6/5 of…

http://codekeyboards.com are currently USB C as are https://www.wasdkeyboards.com

Note that these are keyboards and not mouses, and they have USB-C sockets rather than permanently attached cables with USB-C plugs. They are also very premium products.

When it comes to the entire ecosystem, a $5 bargain-bin noname OEM keyboard with permanently-attached cable is more representative - and those definitely don't come with USB-C yet. That would probably add a few cents to their BOM, so it simply isn't worth it yet.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#64

Post by LorenPechtel »

barrkel wrote: post #15

The big upgrade in USB-C for mobile devices is power delivery; a secondary benefit is video output for laptops, enabling docking using a single cable instead of an old-fashioned dock. PCs aren't in the power delivery game and don't really need an extra video output. Meanwhile, USB 3 over a USB A socket is still able to transfer 500 MB/sec of data - I just did this earlier today, copying from an old M2 SSD in an enclo…

USB C is easier to use.

Machines should have more C ports even if they have to share controller lanes--rarely would anyone be in a situation to saturate the system but being able to have multiple devices plugged in at once is useful.

I'd be perfectly happy with an internal USB C hub--but I have never seen such a thing. (I *do* have an internal USB 3 hub. Same issue--the convenience of multiple ports, I don't need the bandwidth of them having their own controller lanes.)

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#65

Post by anonymouskimmer »

eternityforest wrote: post #57
anonymouskimmer wrote: post #45

> Wouldn’t it make more sense for all of the USB ports on a new PC to be USB-C and then use adapters for legacy components? It's annoying enough swapping wireless mouse adapter and keyboard plugs between my personal computer and my work computers multiple times per hour without also plugging and unplugging adapters. Bluetooth would be even worse. But that raises the question that maybe we aren't getting a lot of USB-…

That's why Logitech has multi device Bluetooth mice! Not sure about keyboards but they probably have it.

Thanks. It looks like they have it for the keyboards, too.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#66

Post by crote »

cassianoleal wrote: post #50
aslilac wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

going off of you saying “micro port” I think you’re talking about USB B.

More likely they mean micro-USB. USB-B is anything but micro.

If we're being pedantic, it's USB Micro-B - more specifically the High-Speed variant. There's also USB Micro-A and USB Micro-AB, and all three have SuperSpeed variants which are twice the size.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#67

Post by crote »

korginator wrote: post #30
aslilac wrote: post #3

calling USB A “legacy” and a “relic” is so misplaced. we all still own USB A devices. I challenge the author to go find a wired keyboard or mouse that comes with a USB C plug. it’s possible, but not easy. the thing is, we could just have both! this isn’t some winner/loser scenario. the real question should be why these computers with enough bandwidth for 11+ connectors don’t at least split the difference with 6/5 of…

USB-C is simply more convenient to use, and you get it right 100% of the time, instead of your orientation being wrong 50% of the time with USB-A.

Just don't accidentally stick USB-C into a USB-A port. It will fit and it will short the port, causing the machine to crash. Speaking from experience...

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#68

Post by dehrmann »

dangus wrote: post #41
aslilac wrote: post #3

calling USB A “legacy” and a “relic” is so misplaced. we all still own USB A devices. I challenge the author to go find a wired keyboard or mouse that comes with a USB C plug. it’s possible, but not easy. the thing is, we could just have both! this isn’t some winner/loser scenario. the real question should be why these computers with enough bandwidth for 11+ connectors don’t at least split the difference with 6/5 of…

On the other hand, the introduction of USB-C will reach its 10 year anniversary in just a couple of years. If this were 2008 you would definitely call a parallel port, a 56k modem, or a floppy drive a relic even though you probably used one in 1998.

That's not a fair comparison considering how compatible USB-C is with USB 3.0 A/B.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#69

Post by cesarb »

makeitdouble wrote: post #11
aslilac wrote: post #3

calling USB A “legacy” and a “relic” is so misplaced. we all still own USB A devices. I challenge the author to go find a wired keyboard or mouse that comes with a USB C plug. it’s possible, but not easy. the thing is, we could just have both! this isn’t some winner/loser scenario. the real question should be why these computers with enough bandwidth for 11+ connectors don’t at least split the difference with 6/5 of…

> I challenge the author to go find a wired keyboard or mouse that comes with a USB C plug.. I can confirm, it's a journey. It's the same kind of journey than finding a hair trimmer that charges on USB C. I see it more as makers being complacent and not giving a fuck though. There's no technical reasons for those to be USB A, and the USB C ones work great. So yes USB A will be there for a while, and more often than n…

> There's no technical reasons for those to be USB A, and the USB C ones work great.

There's a good technical reason for keyboards and mice to still be USB A: adapters from USB A socket to USB C plug are allowed by the standard, but adapters from USB C socket to USB A plug are forbidden (because they would, together with a common USB C cable, allow creating the forbidden USB A to USB A cable). This means that USB A keyboards and mice can be used in both USB A ports and (with a simple passive adapter) USB C ports, while USB C keyboards and mice could be used only on USB C ports.

Therefore, until having enough free USB C ports in computers is common enough, using USB A ports (with an optional adapter to USB C on the box) on the keyboard or mouse makes sense. This is similar to how, during the transition from serial and PS/2 mice to USB mice, it was common for them to come with a adapter which allowed them to be used either on a USB port or (with the adapter) on a PS/2 port.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#70

Post by crote »

p1mrx wrote: post #8

USB-C was designed for highly-integrated mobile devices. Motherboard vendors don't want to deal with power delivery and DisplayPort, and users will be confused when that stuff doesn't work. When a USB-C port is out in space, rather than flat on a desk, C-to-A adapters create a lever arm that increases the risk of damage. Though this can be solved by using adapters with ~100mm of wire in the middle.

Motherboard vendors don't need to deal with PD and DisplayPort. USB-C will work just fine without them - it'll just behave like any regular old USB port.
Post reply on HN