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Coding Is Hard

duttakapil.com

41–50 of 170 posts

Re: Coding Is Hard

#41

I find the story relating, though in a somewhat less dramatic sense. Even after 20+ years of coding, there are very little moments of feeling on top and fully in control. The other end -- feelings of "damn I don't get it, why won't it work" and the feeling of being overwhelmed by a big mess -- is quite more frequent. The weird thing is that thinking "I'm no good at this" is an easy trap to fall into. Sometimes I feel…

i feel very sad that this is a thing. in programming you should always have a feeling of absolute agency. there is no pile of crap deep enough you cant peek under. no bug you shouldn't be able to find, given enough time.

the problem should be that maybe it doesn't make sense to so do in a given context, not that you couldn't choose to do that.

Re: Coding Is Hard

#42
Learn the fundamentals and keep them surfaced, either through explicit spaced repetition or something that approximates it, such as writing, reading or trying to (re)implement them. Then build up on that. Just don't do more than what you can handle at a time. The goal is to reference at least 80% of the necessary from memory.

Re: Coding Is Hard

#43
post #34

If you're still bad at coding after 10 years, give up. There are dozens of other things you might be great at, and every minute you're spent flogging the dead horse of becoming a coding genius, you're missing out on the opportunity to practice something you're really talented at.

He probably isn’t that bad. He just has imposter syndrome most likely… He is assuming people sit down and write things like web browsers in a single, linear sitting. You don’t write any nontrivial software easily if you’re doing something new. The decisions you need to make when developing real software or systems are numerous. Having been in the industry for a very long time and having worked with arguably some of t…

> He is assuming people sit down and write things like web browsers in a single, linear sitting

I can't imagine how someone with 10 years of programming experience would make this assumption.

Re: Coding Is Hard

#44
post #31
post #21

In my experience it’s not supposed to be that hard, unless you’re working at the cutting edge or on really hard problems. But from what you’ve written it seems like you’re struggling with basic stuff. Maybe you’re still lacking fundamentals? Seems like your strategy so far has been to grind tutorials and crash courses. They will make you feel like you’re learning a lot in a short time but in the end you’ll still not…

The author says he struggled with concepts that are “easy” or supposed to be. In my experience of coding since 6th grade and having been in the industry for quite some time, it’s difficult to say something is supposed to be “easy” or “hard”. The author doesn’t give many concrete examples so it’s possible he is just assuming certain things should be super easy… A lot of programmers I meet love to claim they don’t stru…

I don't think writing bubble sort from scratch without mistakes is necessarily a good demonstration of someone's ability to "handle the basics"

Realistically you will never need to write it yourself unless you're coding in some very specific domains

It's at most a signal for whether or not they remember algorithms 101 or some leetcode exercise, but knowing that they do remember isn't really useful to me

Re: Coding Is Hard

#45

Have been feeling very frustrated this past week working on something. Started wondering if I am dumb or is this actually hard. Decided to write a simple quick blog post on it -

Thanks for writing something like this.

I've come to feel that while I love reading HN, it's quite toxic as well. It's like the instagram of coding - every person is so smart, so authoritative, such breadth and depth of knowledge they are all making $300k/yr+ and profess how easy it is to find such a job. It can be really demoralising and even depressing for people who are struggling to be exposed to such potent concentration of things like that.

So it's great to hear someone being vulnerable and owning up to struggles.

I would say, my approach when I hit the types of feelings you express is always to drop down a layer to fundamentals. If X is hard, why is that? It probably means your knowledge isn't sound at some layer below the one you are working at. It sounds like a huge amount of your learning approach has been based on online learning and the issue with these is that they are usually very shallow. They teach you a direct skill but nothing underneath it. So drop down a level and just take time, to properly fill in those gaps. Steadily unravel what is going on one level down. Don't keep battering at the level above constantly getting frustrated. Build your knowledge at the level below. Learn the joy of patiently establishing a sound basis and a complete knowledge of the underlying principles on which something works.

Re: Coding Is Hard

#46
Coding is hard exactly the way painting is hard or sculpting is hard or playing guitar is hard or writing is hard. It is but it's not. You need to put real effort in to learn, some less if you're naturally inclined to it, and many reach a point where they crest ahill and it really isn't that hard at all anymore.

If you're chasing after it as a career and coding feels persistently hard and unnatural, you might be aiming for a career not really suited to you. On the other hand, if you think making software is cool and you're just quite finding it easy all the time, keep grinding and you may get there. At least in this latter case, you'll be grinding on something you care about as you try to get there. If it's just about money (be honest with yourself), that can be found in a lot of places and some of them might come a lot more easily to you.

Re: Coding Is Hard

#47
post #21

In my experience it’s not supposed to be that hard, unless you’re working at the cutting edge or on really hard problems. But from what you’ve written it seems like you’re struggling with basic stuff. Maybe you’re still lacking fundamentals? Seems like your strategy so far has been to grind tutorials and crash courses. They will make you feel like you’re learning a lot in a short time but in the end you’ll still not…

I have been giving advice to a person, young also (16 years old) and he thinks he can go very far very quickly.

I told him to be patient, to insist, to commit time learning not only typical courses of how to code your website with a database. In fact I gave him advice against doing that first.

I adviced him to learn binary/hex, algorithms, data structures and structured programming as a minimum. Also how a machine works (at least the abstract model): memory addresses, data, pc.ñ, call stack... etc. Interpeters vs compilers, some OS basics (though at first can skip most of this). My advice has been to first learn with Python and later C.

Understand why or when to use functions, certain data structures, etc. Do increasingly difficult but basic exercises.

And specifically, develop a sense and taste, at the end, on how to figure out how to code a solution to a problem he never saw. Cost analysis also helps lots and must be learnt at some point.

This is what happens when you gothrough random courses, exactly:

> Maybe you’re still lacking fundamentals? Seems like your strategy so far has been to grind tutorials and crash courses. They will make you feel like you’re learning a lot in a short time but in the end you’ll still not know what you’re doing, and you’ll keep struggling when facing new problems that are outside of the scope of the tutorial.

That is SO true. You have to start from scratch. I mean it. Because when you see something like s stacktrace that goes from Python to your native library with memory addresses you will understand NOTHING when the time comes.

Programming is a discipline where you need a lot of practice.

Re: Coding Is Hard

#48
> I wanted to prove to myself that I was smart, that all the adults in my life who told me I was "dumb and stupid" because I couldn't excell at school were wrong. I was not dumb, I was not an idiot, I could do it.

> And that was when reality slapped me really hard for the first time on my face.

These two consecutive paragraphs seem contradictory.

Re: Coding Is Hard

#49
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author says he struggled with concepts that are “easy” or supposed to be. In my experience of coding since 6th grade and having been in the industry for quite some time, it’s difficult to say something is supposed to be “easy” or “hard”. The author doesn’t give many concrete examples so it’s possible he is just assuming certain things should be super easy… A lot of programmers I meet love to claim they don’t stru…

I don't think writing bubble sort from scratch without mistakes is necessarily a good demonstration of someone's ability to "handle the basics" Realistically you will never need to write it yourself unless you're coding in some very specific domains It's at most a signal for whether or not they remember algorithms 101 or some leetcode exercise, but knowing that they do remember isn't really useful to me

it's not even the most efficient search. I don't think any sort method in a language would use a bubble.

Re: Coding Is Hard

#50
Context for HN :

It's 2 am here right now. I wrote this post very quickly in about 30 mins on the recommendation of a friend to just take my mind off things before going to sleep. I was not expecting it to get any real attention, and so did not attempt to provide much context in the post.

Genuinely appreciate your comments, especially those with encouraging, emphatic words and guidance. Also great to read your own personal journeys as well.

Although I started learning to code 10 years ago, I have not actually been actively coding for all these years. I have worked as a full time dev professionally for maybe just 3 months, and quickly moved into management roles from there.

My primary expertise today is more towards product management, sales, marketing, etc than coding. I currently work in a Enterprise Sales role, and my goal is still being an entrepreneur and building companies.

Zooming out and looking at my entire history, I have spent very little actual time coding. This is the primary reason behind the struggle I express in this post. I feel frustrated with how much little time I have put into it over the years, and how little progress I have made.

Also, perhaps important to note, I have diagnosed ADHD, chronic anxiety disorder and some level of bipolar as well. I don't like to attach these as part of my personality, but it explains a lot of my impulsivity, grandiose thinking and mood swings, which contribute to my frustration significantly as well. Also the reason why I could never learn well in classroom or with tutors. Self-learning has always worked better for me.

The post is intentionally very generic and vague, and doesn't give any specific examples of what I was struggling with and why, simply because it was more of an emotional post to express my frustration from the past week. I also have not written anything in a long time, so this was a good excuse for me to quickly write and publish something.

I recently started working on a new side project, and I have a team of people working with me, but we have been falling short of hands, and so I decided to get more involved in the development, and things were going great until last week when I started trying to refactor our codebase. I hit many walls with things I did not fully deeply understand, and struggling to keep track of a lot of different changes as I was making them - thus ending up breaking things and compounding my frustration even more.

I am currently strongly motivated to get better at coding. That is what prompted me to talk to my friend, who is the best engineer I know, and who encouraged me to write down my thoughts and publish them.

I am certain that with persistence and consistency, I would get through and not struggle as much as I have in the past week.

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