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What if money expired?

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Re: What if money expired?

#101

Post by PopAlongKid »

pelorat wrote: post #76

In some places in Europe, like Sweden, when new bills are released, and if you don't get your old exchanged they will soon enough become worthless. So don't stuff cash in your matress or you'll lose it eventually.

Not that different in U.S. The older bills without modern anti-counterfeiting (colored threads, holograms, etc) already attract increased scrutiny (not exactly worthless, but heading in the same direction). I recently went to an In-N-Out with a $50 bill from around the turn of the century, and a manager had to be called over to inspect it.

Re: What if money expired?

#102

Post by saurik »

amelius wrote: post #90
Throwfi44 wrote: post #14

Money do expire! There is inflation... I would like similar system for land ownership and buildings. Property taxes at level of 5%. In China land can not be owned, but only leased for 70 years.

> Money do expire! There is inflation... If someone put 1 dollar on the bank in 1900, then what would it be worth now, considering both inflation and interest?

So. that isn't "money", that's "debt"; and, in fact, the article covers this...

> Money could be deposited in a bank, whereby it would retain its value because the bank would be responsible for the stamps. To avoid paying for the stamps, the bank would be incentivized to loan the money, passing on the holding expense to others. In Gesell’s vision, banks would loan so freely that their interest rates would eventually fall to zero, and they would collect only a small risk premium and an administration fee.

Re: What if money expired?

#103

Post by dontwearitout »

amelius wrote: post #90
Throwfi44 wrote: post #14

Money do expire! There is inflation... I would like similar system for land ownership and buildings. Property taxes at level of 5%. In China land can not be owned, but only leased for 70 years.

> Money do expire! There is inflation... If someone put 1 dollar on the bank in 1900, then what would it be worth now, considering both inflation and interest?

This only goes back to 1913, but says $1 in 1913 is worth $30.65 today. That's pretty rough. https://www.minneapolisfed.org/about-us/monetary-policy/infl...

Re: What if money expired?

#105

Post by latency-guy2 »

jonnycomputer wrote: post #55
mikewarot wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Soft money is a contract with the state, hard money doesn't expire. A $1 silver dollar coin from 1901 is worth a heck of a lot more than a $1 bill from the same time.

The value of that $1 silver coin is either the market value of the silver, or the sentimental value to collectors. It not functionally money anymore. The notion of "hard money" is a joke.

> The notion of "hard money" is a joke.

Why? I don't even think modern Keynesians would argue against commodities this confidently, maybe MMT's would?

Re: What if money expired?

#106

Post by edgarvaldes »

grogenaut wrote: post #61
mikewarot wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I carry around a piece of hard currency (1901 Silver Dollar) to remind me of what real money is like... it's always been worth about 4 retail gallons of gasoline. I expect that trend to continue for at least another decade. Soft money, tends towards zero, as you said.

How do you get a gas station attendant to give you $16 worth of gas on the spot for a $1 coin. No intermediaries.

I think the comment is about the equivalence, not about being ready to perform the real transaction.

Re: What if money expired?

#107

Post by temporarara »

gumby wrote: post #84
haolez wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a very good way of explaining this. Here in Brazil the previous generations have a golden rule that you must store value in land, not in money. And Brazil has had tons of inflation and weak currencies in the last decades (with all the poverty and stagnation that it brings).

Land can expire. IIRC back in the late 60s and 70s Singapore had, and may still have, a law requiring purchased land to be developed within 7 years else the government would auction it off. The same effect is why many economists believe that a bit of inflation is important (this argument is different from the widely held central bank theory that an inflation target of ~2% is better than 0)

If you buy forest or agricultural land you are pretty safe. The worst thing that can happen in civilized places is that a big entity forcefully buys it away from you for "reasons" and you don't get as much profit as you would like, but nonetheless then you can just buy more land somewhere else. Owning developed land is just a liability in many places since you've got to pay taxes and all kind of annual fees. It's business at that point and not just owning land (your business instincts don't have to be nearly as good when dealing with forest and agricultural land).

Re: What if money expired?

#108

Post by alittleotbut »

gumby wrote: post #84
haolez wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a very good way of explaining this. Here in Brazil the previous generations have a golden rule that you must store value in land, not in money. And Brazil has had tons of inflation and weak currencies in the last decades (with all the poverty and stagnation that it brings).

Land can expire. IIRC back in the late 60s and 70s Singapore had, and may still have, a law requiring purchased land to be developed within 7 years else the government would auction it off. The same effect is why many economists believe that a bit of inflation is important (this argument is different from the widely held central bank theory that an inflation target of ~2% is better than 0)

Expire !? For example, let's think about a solid basic land reform, and every owner now has to pay 5% of the immobile-value on it, as an annually tax.

And after twenty years i don't have paid the debt for an apartment or house, two-times?

But, sure so americans try to sell us houses builded from; chipboard, insulating wool, plasterboard and roofing cardboard?

i am questioning this... in terms of: "money was to last longer than the expiring and perishable things" and "The real estate bubble created by low interest rates"

Cos for me it seem that it ignored grief and "people" for -to be objective something the OP named "interest", i won't sound offending but it seem to be a mistake (both..all three...)

regards...

edited: sry "alittlebut" i mistaken you for the op p-:

Re: What if money expired?

#109

Post by trompetenaccoun »

numtel wrote: post #3

Uh, our money does already expire. It's called inflation.

Yes but they want more. Authorities can't print endlessly, inflation would get too bad and apart from the danger of economic collapse, ordinary people do notice when the purchasing power of their money rapidly depreciates, even when they don't fully understand why. In comes CBDC and the realistic ability to make this "free money" stamp idea a thing at scale. They could give the tokens an expiry date as well, Chinese authorities have proposed such a thing.* Or void certain ones while leaving others untouched. For example if you were to take part in an illegal trucker protest, poof go your savings.

*https://www.econ.iastate.edu/ask-an-economist/why-would-chin...

Re: What if money expired?

#110

Post by CivilWart »

owlstuffing wrote: post #88

Fiat money already DOES expire. It’s called INFLATION. If you put all your investments in a savings account in 2008, your “money” would smell like a compost pit.

Inflationary expiration is not guaranteed though. Deflation is always a possibility.
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