211–220 of 230 posts
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How does that even work? I am, and should be, free to not show up to work for any reason I choose. If I'm legally required to work, isn't that forced labor?
You'd be fired. In many countries, you could not be fired legally.
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I think we may be running into the weeds of pedantry here, but here goes... (Speaking about how things are in the US. I don't know how they are elsewhere.) Contract law is about how to interpret and adjudicate contracts when there is a dispute between the parties in the contract. Nothing about that means that violating a contract, in and of itself, is illegal. You aren't going to suffer any criminal penalties for fai…
I think you’re using the word “illegal” in place of the word “criminal”
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I think you’re using the word “illegal” in place of the word “criminal”
"Illegal" means "a violation of law". That's automatically a question of criminality. Contract violations are not a violation of law, they're a violation of a legally-binding contract. Violating a contract isn't illegal in any meaningful sense, but doing so will incur whatever penalties the contract specifies will happen if it's violated. Those penalties are enforced through the legal system, but that doesn't mean th…
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"Failing to integrate them" could be because they struggled to find jobs, due to unions acting as a cartel and shutting competitors out of the labor market. If Norway accepted fewer immigrants, that means that fewer jobs for immigrants are needed. If you accept a lot of immigrants, you'd like to have employment opportunities for _all_ of them. Unionization could cause this problem by lowering demand for unskilled wor…
"Could be...", "what if...", "maybe it's..." ... So much wishy-washiness and absolutely zero concrete information. I don't think you're proving any points.
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From elsewhere in this thread: "A key reason for the sympathy strikes is that Tesla brought in scabs which is a big no-no in Scandinavian labor markets." Sounds like an attempt to prevent other people from being hired. Re: setting a minimum salary -- suppose we set the minimum price of burgers at $100/burger. Do you think that would cause people to buy fewer burgers? I don't think "minimum salary kills jobs" is specu…
No, that's a reaction to the employer trying to circumvent the strike. It's an attempt to ensure that the strike is effective, and wouldn't normally happen. (also, the sympathy strikers object to the hiring of other people _to do the strikers' tasks _, not hiring in general.) > Force the price of labor to be high and unemployment will increase. If you don't, there will be a race to the bottom and people won't have a…
>(also, the sympathy strikers object to the hiring of other people _to do the strikers' tasks _, not hiring in general.)
A mafioso could tell you "We broke his legs to ensure that people stay quiet. It wouldn't normally happen. It's fine for him to talk to the cops. Just don't talk to the cops about us."
>If you don't, there will be a race to the bottom and people won't have a liveable wage.
People looking for jobs will prefer to accept a job that has a higher wage. So you could just as easily argue that there will be a race to the top, as businesses compete over workers until businesses can no longer make a profit.
The US economy has fewer unions than the Swedish economy, yet its median income is around 30% higher: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-median-income?tab=t...
People in this thread are comparing Norway to Sweden. One way of interpreting the median income data I linked is, if Sweden adopted the sort of capitalist approach you see in the US or Switzerland, the increased economic dynamism would be the equivalent of discovering $1.5 trillion in oil wealth, from the perspective of the median worker.
I suggest reading up on basic microeconomics until you can explain concepts like "supply curve" or "demand curve". This book teaches you the approximate contents of an undergrad micro class in a way that's fun and entertaining: https://www.amazon.com/Cartoon-Introduction-Economics-I-Micr... Then you'll have an idea of why the "race to the bottom" and "race to the top" scenarios aren't actually happening.
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From elsewhere in this thread: "A key reason for the sympathy strikes is that Tesla brought in scabs which is a big no-no in Scandinavian labor markets." Sounds like an attempt to prevent other people from being hired. Re: setting a minimum salary -- suppose we set the minimum price of burgers at $100/burger. Do you think that would cause people to buy fewer burgers? I don't think "minimum salary kills jobs" is specu…
> Especially for low-skilled immigrants whose main way to compete is willingness to work for low wages. A race to the bottom, exploitative labour market is not what we want here in Sweden. Preying on someone's desperation to work for lower wages than what collectively we think is fair is pure exploitation. The labour market in Sweden is quite free and mostly deregulated, the main pillar of the foundation for it being…
That's the position that you are taking with respect to migrants from developing countries. An "exploitative" job in the Swedish economy would be a big upgrade from their options back home, yet you still deny it to them out of a high-minded sense of "altruism".
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I mean, if unions are cartels, then so are corporate boards.
I've never felt pressured to join a corporate board against my will.
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They had to sell of Volvo to Ford and then it got resold to China, so maybe there are cracks in the benefits.
What does that have to do with unions in Sweden?
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>In a regular employee-employer relations there is a big difference in negotiating power. Not necessarily, it depends on the state of the labor market. You remember a few years ago when the Valley was incredibly hot. Workers had a lot of negotiating power despite being non-unionized.
Some workers had. Don't forget there are millions people on visa, in wait-list for green card. They always have been screwed.